phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 21, 2010 21:34:30 GMT -5
So, my question to you, Michael, is this:
Isn't Osama Bin Laden performing the very function government is supposed to serve?
thanx
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Post by Stephen on Feb 21, 2010 21:59:35 GMT -5
And in the chapter you keep going back to, Luke 4, Jesus says to the devil "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." So I'd rather not. It's not God that's being tested. It's you. "Buy the truth and do not sell it; get wisdom, discipline and understanding." - Prov 23:23 The person who refuses to question his own beliefs will now ask the person who has completely altered his world view after 15 years of intense study if he is willing to seek truth. I will resist the urge to laugh hysterically and will instead accept your question at face value. Yes. I have sought truth. And as scripture promised, it changed my life. And I'll do it again. Right now. It's time to put up or shut up. The cards are on the table. No more stalling and no more excuses. I am willing to re-examine everything I believe, side by side with you - as you abandon all of your preconceived notions as well - and join you in a mutual search for the truth. Which, you will recall, is precisely what I've been asking you to do for a week now. Are you finally ready? Are you ready to abandon your entire world view if truth demands it? Are all your ideas, thoughts and beliefs totally, 100% surrendered to truth, wisdom and understanding at any cost? Mine are. If so, congratulations. You are finally seeking truth. And yes, I'm ready as well. Shall we begin? |
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 21, 2010 23:00:56 GMT -5
Michael, Dude. chillax. I didn't want to answer the question myself, I didn't want to risk an assumption, I wanted to hear your views from your own mouth. Since I didn't get the "We need government because..." answer I was hoping for I think what you're saying is: We need government because no one can protect us if we don't have one.Yes that is correct, though mostly on the large scale. As in country to country. |
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 21, 2010 23:02:18 GMT -5
So, my question to you, Michael, is this: Isn't Osama Bin Laden performing the very function government is supposed to serve? thanx To put it simply. You actually trust his statment? |
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 21, 2010 23:33:06 GMT -5
And in the chapter you keep going back to, Luke 4, Jesus says to the devil "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." So I'd rather not. It's not God that's being tested. It's you. "Buy the truth and do not sell it; get wisdom, discipline and understanding." - Prov 23:23 The person who refuses to question his own beliefs will now ask the person who has completely altered his world view after 15 years of intense study if he is willing to seek truth. I will resist the urge to laugh hysterically and will instead accept your question at face value. Yes. I have sought truth. And as scripture promised, it changed my life. And I'll do it again. Right now. It's time to put up or shut up. The cards are on the table. No more stalling and no more excuses. I am willing to re-examine everything I believe, side by side with you - as you abandon all of your preconceived notions as well - and join you in a mutual search for the truth. Which, you will recall, is precisely what I've been asking you to do for a week now. Are you finally ready? Are you ready to abandon your entire world view if truth demands it? Are all your ideas, thoughts and beliefs totally, 100% surrendered to truth, wisdom and understanding at any cost? Mine are. If so, congratulations. You are finally seeking truth. And yes, I'm ready as well. Shall we begin? I already have the truth. John 14:6 :Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. I don't need to re-examine it. But I will try follow you through this little "lesson". But the one thing I will not do is question the Almighty One. And I will give a few reasons why: Charles Darwin, Mahmud Gandhi, Muhammad. These are but a few who questioned the authenticity of the Bible and the TRUTH of Christ, look where they ended up. I love the Lord more than I fear him, but the thought comes up in the back of my head every now and then, "what if when I was young, I took evolution as truth? What if I had listened to the people who said, 'Christ isn't the only way.'? I hate to think about it. My. Faith. Will. Not. Be. Wavered. And it. Will. Not. Be. Tested. |
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 22, 2010 9:44:59 GMT -5
To put it simply. You actually trust his statment? Dude... seriously? After leaving me to make my own assumptions about what you believe, I then went out and researched something, read it carefully, provided the link for you to double check its validity, and then pasted it on the forum to save you a few extra clicks.. and that's the answer you give me? Honestly? Dude it's like debating with Kevin. As dear a friend as he is I can't get him to OPEN HIS MIND. I'm not asking you to accept Osama's statement, or even trust it. But I just brought you a valid statement and asked you a honest question about it. Now don't you dare weasel out on me like this dude. I want you to do one of two things. 1st - Answer my original question... isn't Osama performing the very function his government is supposed to serve? and if answering that takes you beyond the security provided by your worldview then 2nd - Justify the fact that you won't answer the question by refuting the evidence I provided as false and unreliable. and DON'T YOU DARE brush me off with another one word post dude. You're smarter than that, you're above other teens I have met. If you don't want to answer then I want you provide the same amount of evidence against my question that I provided for it. |
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Post by Stephen on Feb 22, 2010 10:17:38 GMT -5
I already have the truth... I don't need to re-examine it. Then we shall not. I must admit, I wish I had all truth by the time I was 15. Since you already have truth, there is no point in seeking it. I will not waste your time by putting you through a senseless exercise. You can learn nothing. And you have no need to anyway. And God will surely understand, given your wisdom and understanding, that there is no need for you to follow his instructions by seeking what you already possess. |
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 22, 2010 15:04:38 GMT -5
I already have the truth... I don't need to re-examine it. Then we shall not. I must admit, I wish I had all truth by the time I was 15. Since you already have truth, there is no point in seeking it. I will not waste your time by putting you through a senseless exercise. You can learn nothing. And you have no need to anyway. And God will surely understand, given your wisdom and understanding, that there is no need for you to follow his instructions by seeking what you already possess. You obviously didn't read all of my post. He is my Truth, He guides me in my daily life, if I ask for help He gives it to me when I really need it. From the most mundane things you can think of, to my close relationships. I will not question Someone that is REAL and the embodiment of Truth! We, being mortal human sinners, can not fathom Truth without someplace to anchor our definition of Truth, what is Truth but what we make it? We would otherwise flounder from false teaching to false teaching, you will not find Truth, fulfillment, completeness, joy, grace, and many other things until you come to Jesus Christ. To question Him is foolhardy, in doing so you open your self to the evils of the world, whether it be paganism or islam, each and every one are lies that the devil has spawned to draw us away from Christ, the only Truth. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. This is a gift you have to accept, the only way to accept it is to know the Truth, John 14:6 :Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” If you want freedom so bad just know the Truth, it's as simple as that. Don't you dare ask me to question my faith again. You have only known me for a year how do you know I haven't already? I have already weighed and measured Christ, and He was found to be light years above all others. He lives, and He is coming back. Dip your response in sarcasm all you want, the only things I seek to learn are to further try to understand and fathom the awesomeness and power of the Lord. |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 22, 2010 22:09:44 GMT -5
I have just completed reading through this discussion. I have some observations and replies to a few things. But first I'd like to encourage everyone to remember that sometimes a debate can get heated, feelings hurt, friendships tarnished. Sometimes sarcasm can be an effective tool to get a point across, and sometimes it can be detrimental to the discussion and to the people having it. Care and caution should always be used.
A few thoughts:
Michael for a young guy I'm impressed by your articulaton. I've been worshiping with you all this time now and I knew you were smart, but good job!
I have found some things brought out in the discussion that I'd like to go back and point out. Let me also say that this discussion is similar to so many that the Skinners and I have had over the years. I pray that we'll all learn to better be "Iron sharpening Iron".
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 22, 2010 22:11:17 GMT -5
I've been in bed a lot the past couple of days so I missed this discussion until Garrett told me about it today. I'm also tied up with school right now until through tomorrow night so if I don't respond 'til later in the week, don't take it personally.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 22, 2010 22:18:47 GMT -5
I have to agree with Michael that people who strap bombs to their bodies, use innocent civilians as shields, and fly airplanes into buildings are nut-jobs.
As far as this old repeated cliche' about us killing innocent civilians in Iraq and how can that be ok if it's not ok for the terrorists to kill our innocent civilians (or similar such drivel):
The innocent civilians who die during US-led strikes were never a prime target. We are NOT going in with the mindset of destroying innocent civilians. We strike military targets. Sometimes, tragically, innocent civilians die in the process. Our military as a whole does everything to try to avoid the casualties. Anyone who says they do not is either A. lying or B. repeating a lie they heard.
The strike on US soil on 9-11 was much different. The targets were not military they were civilian. I do think the economy was probably part of the mindset of the terrorists, but that doesn't change the fact that it was NOT a military target where innocent civlians died inadvertently as a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time or being there by choice.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 22, 2010 22:20:15 GMT -5
At least as it relates to the World Trade Center being a non-military target.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 22, 2010 22:26:36 GMT -5
Re: the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a book that encourages its followers to act just like the terrorist Muhammed. Here is but one of many sources that clearly classifies and labels the hatred towards non-Muslims that can be found in their "holy" book. www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 22, 2010 22:30:58 GMT -5
Terrorists who follow after Muhammad their prophet are following an early terrorist child molestor. Think that is wrong? Look up and do a study on Aisha the child wife of Muhammad. She was 9 when the pervert terrorist married her.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 22, 2010 22:35:30 GMT -5
So, my question to you, Michael, is this: Isn't Osama Bin Laden performing the very function government is supposed to serve? thanx No. He is an insane madman and a liar. We should not accept one word of his statement as true or believable. |
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