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Post by kevan on May 18, 2007 14:34:10 GMT -5
Since there seems to be support for a campaign, I thought I would start a new thread to discuss the details of the campaign. I'm going to throw out a few ideas for comment, but feel free to add other details that you feel are needed.
Date: Anyone want to suggest a particular period of the war?
Location: Likewise, any preferred location?
Pilots: It seems to me that a simple solution to the problem of varying player turnout (especially over the summer months) would be for each player to have one main pilot, plus an alternate pilot on the "enemy" side, in case someone needs to volunteer to switch sides for balance.
Drop-in players: Since we want to encourage new players, I propose any new or infrequent players be allowed to join in with an inexperienced pilot.
Frequency:Do we want the campaign to run on every Thursday night, or every second night, or once a month?
Campaign Rules:The Indysquadron campaign rules make sense to me. What other rules are needed?
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Post by Stephen on May 19, 2007 11:31:34 GMT -5
Date: Anyone want to suggest a particular period of the war? Mid 1917, Albs and SE's. These are mainstay planes in the game and everyone needs pilots in them. This will give newbies a chance to work on their rosters rather than fly weird planes that they'll never see again. Stay on western front for the same reason. That's always worked well for Indy. Every other Thursday.
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Post by kevan on May 25, 2007 11:11:10 GMT -5
If noone else has any comments, I would like to get the campaign rolling. One thing that occurred to me last night is that if we can play 2-3 games on a Thursday, that creates the opportunity to have one campaign game each week while still having other non-campaign and unique games. I propose that the campaign game be scheduled for the "standard" 8:30-9:00 start, leaving the possibility of games before and/or after.
Since there were no comments other than Stephen's, I would like to run with his suggestion of summer of 17 with Albs and SEs on the western front.
I would like to invite everyone to submit two pilots - one Alb pilot and one SE pilot - along with your preference for German or Allied. Your second pilot will be used if a player needs to volunteer to switch sides to balance a game. I foresee a limited pool of planes for each side, and if one side contains much more experienced pilots, I may adjust the planes to balance things out. Anyone who doesn't have pilots submitted will be able to join campaign games, but only with new pilots.
I'll try to write up some basic rules this weekend and post them here. The invitation is still out to everyone to suggest rules.
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Post by kirkh on May 25, 2007 11:35:12 GMT -5
I think last night was an anomaly that shouldn't be counted on to happen regularly. Six of us got online at around 7PM (four playing, two spectating) and due to some lucky (or unlucky depending on your point of view) dice rolling, three of the planes fell out of the air after only a few turns. Under normal circumstances that game would have lasted longer so that the "regular" game probably wouldn't have gotten started until much later. Also, I think a number of us showing up early last night was something that also can't be counted on. As I've mentioned in other e-mails, I recommend we don't try to schedule too many things for a given game night. A couple dice rolls here or there and with those two spectators taking part, we might still be playing that first game.
As for aircraft in the campaign, if the assumption is that each of us will play the same side each game, I'd recommend two planes a little closer as far as armament. The SE has a decided disadvantage due to its arrangement and the way the SE has to roll twice for damage on each shot. I'd recommend two planes with traditional armament such as maybe DVII's and Camel's.
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Post by AP on May 25, 2007 12:18:52 GMT -5
how about a 'campaign day'? pick a weekend day, start in the AM & plan to fly 3-4 missions. that way there is no switching sides or players or any other confusing aspects. The whole point of a campaign is to get a number of congruent missions in, if that isnt happening it kind of loses the point of being a campaign... my 2 cents
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Post by kevan on May 25, 2007 12:37:24 GMT -5
The campaign idea originated out of trying to develop special events to differentiate a "Thursday Leage Night" from the other VDP games. It was the most popular option in the poll I put up. I fully support anyone who wishes to organize a one-day campaign, but this is definitely aimed at Thursday nights. Likewise, I don't mean to impose something on folks who don't want it. Let's try it out, see how it works, and if nobody cares for it we can stop the campaign at any point.
I realise this Thursday was an anomaly with 3 games, but I think it's reasonable to expect there will often be two games on a Thursday, whether the extra game starts early or late.
I will happily consider other scenarios than the 1917 SEs vs Albs. Stephen was the only person who commented, so that's why I went with it. I invite other comments regarding date/plane preferences or rules, as I'm more than willing to go with the majority preference.
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Post by kirkh on May 25, 2007 12:38:09 GMT -5
Unfortunately the only time during the year I'd be able to do that is this weekend when the family is at Grandmas. Any other time of the year there's no way I'd be able to tell the wife I'm going to play games for eight hours.
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Post by Stephen on May 25, 2007 13:40:04 GMT -5
I'd recommend two planes a little closer as far as armament. The SE has a decided disadvantage due to its arrangement and the way the SE has to roll twice for damage on each shot. I'd recommend two planes with traditional armament such as maybe DVII's and Camel's. The SE's have more speed, while the Albs have a bit better armament. To me, the enjoyment of the campaign comes not from flying identically equipped airplanes, but in finding the particular advantage that your airplane has and leveraging it to find a way to win. I wouldn't want to fly a death trap, but the equalization thing can become a slippery slope. If we really wanted to be equal we could just give the same plane stats to both sides... what a yawner that would be. The game then becomes a series of dice rolls to see who is luckiest. We should also realize that games are never equal and as long as human beings play this game, the losing side will always complain about their alleged disadvantages. So I kinda like SE's and Albs. Or SPADs and Tripes. Or Bristols and DVII's... or any scenario that offers genuine differences in airplanes so that each side enjoys both advantages and disadvantages.
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Post by AP on May 25, 2007 13:49:10 GMT -5
I agree with Stephen that different is good. My favorite matchup is Nieport 17s vs. DIIIs. Speed vs. Might!! Having to pit your strengths against our opponents weaknesses is a great part of this game.
Since I have played the game so much I also like the more rare aircraft as well... How about S.S.W DIVs vs. Snipes? Or Hanriot HD-1s vs Rolands...
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Post by kirkh on May 25, 2007 14:03:30 GMT -5
Oh I agree with Stephen as well since each player isn't permanently stuck playing the same aircraft. I thought somebody said a while back that each person would be flying the same aircraft each game in the campaign. I was worried if a person was always the one on the short end of the stick week in and week out they'd get frustrated. Sorry if I misunderstood.
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Post by kevan on May 25, 2007 14:37:34 GMT -5
I think you understood correctly the first time, Kirk. During the campaign, each side would be limited to one or two plane types.
I'm intrigued by AP's idea of having rare aircraft, but the argument for those would be the opposite of Stephen's reasons for having common aircraft. Instead of gaining an experienced pilot that you could probably use again in the near future, you would gain an experienced pilot that wouldn't fly very often, but would be a surprise to opponents.
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Post by kevan on Jun 12, 2007 16:29:07 GMT -5
The following rules are a work in progess. I'm updating them every so often, so what you see here is the current rules, not the original ones posted.
Pilots Each regular VDP player submits one allied and one german pilot before the campaign starts, stating their preference for sides. One pilot for each side can be a two-seater pilot (first who states interest). After all pilots are submitted, I will set core, relatively-balanced teams. If an individual game has too many on one side, volunteers will use their alternate pilot and fly for the other team for the night. Any new players joining after start of campaign must start with rookie pilots, but will be allowed to have more advanced planes.
Important Note: Pilots must be dedicated to campaign for the duration of the campaign, and should not be flown in other DP games.
Planes There will initially be a very limited pool of planes for each side, with more modern planes appearing to replace losses (balancing pilot losses). Allies start with all SE-5, with SE-5a as replacements. Germans start with Albatros DIII, except for rookie or replacement pilots who roll for random aircraft, thus having a 50% chance of flying a Pfalz or DV instead of a DIII. The attacker may choose to have one or more two-seaters aloft in any scenario, and will require it for several scenarios (see below).
Games Each Thursday, the teams roll off. The high rolling team becomes "attacker" for the evening and secretly rolls up the scenario.
Balancing At any game with an odd number of players, or where an additional player is flying in to an even-numbered game, the numerical advantage will always go to the side with the fewest total campaign points.
Points So that someone can be declared winner at the end of this, points are awarded at 2 points/"kill", plus 1 point for each plane chased away. Scenarios are 1 point / objective completed, double points if all completed for attacker, defender gets 2 points for each incomplete objective at scenario end (more below). For dogfight scenarios, points for kills and fleeing are doubled. All planes which escape combat are considered to be chased away, except for attacking planes that escape after a two-seater mission has been completed.
At the end of the campaign, each side gets 1 bonus point for each mission that has been survived by each pilot remaining alive.
Scenarios Attacking team rolls secretly to determine scenario, only discloses necessary information to defender.
First Roll (1D6)
1-3 Normal Dogfight - roll up location, weather, altitude as usual.
4 Dogfight w/ Exceptional Circumstances - Roll again on Exceptional Circumstances table below. Roll up details for location, weather, and altitude as usual unless superceded by Exceptional Circumstances.
5-6 2-Seater Mission - roll up weather as usual. Attackers and defenders both start at low altitude
Dogfights w/ Exceptional Circumstances (1D6)
1 Dawn Patrol - Morning dogfight. On a second roll of 4-6, fog obscures ground below 100' in area of dogfight (but not at home airfields). Penalties of -1 to hit and no tailing when attacking from same altitude and directly West of target. +10% chance of German surprise, minimum 10% chance regardless of starting altitudes.
2 Sunset Patrol - Dogfight as the sun sets. Each side does hidden 2D6 roll - result is # of turns before risking a night landing at home field; planes leaving the dogfight after this # of turns have a 5% chance/additional turn (10% second turn, 15% third turn) of a night landing. If one pilot rolls a night landing, all pilots on same side that escape the battle on subsequent turns will also return to a night landing. Pilots may choose to avoid the night landing penalty by immediately landing at the location of the combat (risking capture if over the front or enemy territory). Night landing penalty is -1 roll when looking for landing site and chance of landing is -5% at airfield, -10% on road, -20% anywhere else. Penalty of -1 to hit and no tailing when attacking from same altitude and directly E of target. +10% chance of Allied surprise, min. 10% chance regardless of starting altitudes.
3 Low Fuel - attackers are low on fuel. Attackers do not reveal this fact (or even that there are exceptional circumstances) to defenders. Each attacking pilot secretly rolls 2D6 - after that # of turns, roll at the beginning of each additional turn with 5% chance/turn (10% second turn, 15% third turn, and so on) of running out of fuel. When departing battle after the turn limit, there is 10% chance/extra turn (20% second turn, 30% third turn, and so on) that plane will not have enough fuel to return home, must glide to landing. Objective of mission is for attackers is to successfully disengage and return home. For each attacker who doesn't make it home but glides to a safe landing, attacker still receives 1VP but attackers do not receive double-VPs for meeting all objectives. Defenders do not gain VPs for driving off attacker planes.
4 We're late for a very important date! - unbeknownst to defenders, attackers are en route to a separate location, all planes must successfully escape combat within 2D6 turns. (Half VPs to attackers for scenario objective if clouds can be reached within escape timeframe, defenders do not gain VPs for escaping attacker planes)
5 Not another fight... - unbeknownst to defenders, attackers are en route home from a separate mission. Each deck gun has fired 1D6+3 Interrupted bursts (rolled together or separately), Lewis guns have one less spare drum. Each plane has taken 1D6 attacks on table G from random directions (re-roll head-ons). Roll a critical hit check once for each damaged location, re-rolling fatal results. Attackers receive double-VPs (on top of double-VPs for dogfight, so each kill is worth 4VP!)Defenders do not gain VPs for escaping attacker planes.
6 Plane Down Low altitude, in Defender territory. Remote location, no anti-aircraft defences and light ground troops. A friendly plane (not a player plane, pilot is not a campaign pilot) has encountered engine problems and landed behind enemy lines. The pilot has survived and is wildly waving for a rescue. Enemy infantry are closing in, though - after turn 6, roll 1D6 at the start of each turn; on a 6, he has been captured. Role randomly for plane location and place a plane counter there, re-rolling location if plane could not have possibly landed there. Pilot can move one square/turn in search of a good pick-up location (movement is plotted using a marker counter), but he cannot cross the river unless using a bridge. This counts as a mission, with 2VP for a successful rescue and 2VP to defenders for preventing rescue. After picking up pilot, rescuing plane has +1 to initiative and attack rolls, and has a 10% chance of losing passenger when performing a fancy maneuvre. Any possible or probable pilot hits against rescuing plane are rolled twice, the second chance being against the rescued pilot.
Two-Seater Missions (1D6) Note: For all two-seater missions, attackers enter at edge of board, defenders position anywhere on opposite half of board.
Attacker Preparations Attacker must have at least one two-seater.
Defender Preparations Defenders secretly roll for AA & MG emplacements and infantry concentrations on random tables. AA & MG are placed anywhere on board and hidden until firing. Except for balloon busting and aerodrome raid missions, defenders are not informed of attacker mission objectives.
1 Scouting - attackers must successfully observe 4-6 random locations on board (roll % for X & Y axis, ignoring results higher than number of rows/columns). Each location is a separate mission objective. A successful observation is performed by flying straight and level for entire turn, ending movement within 2000' of the location being observed. Observers may not perform any other duty while operating wireless, but are not required to announce the intentions until all movement is completed. Any conscious observer may operate wireless.
2 Spotting for artillery - attackers must successfully guide artillery fire to 1-3 random locations on board. Each target is a separate mission objective. Aircraft must fly straight and level entire turn. Observer signals artillery unit to commence firing, with a 5% chance for the first, unguided salvo to hit (rolled at end of firing phase). Every successive signal to artillery results in a 10% increase for the next salvo to hit. Spotting aircraft must end turn within 5000' of ground target in order to observe results. Once a hit is achieved, spotting aircraft must send a final message to "fire at will," after which target is destroyed. Final wireless message may be sent after escaping from combat, or at any distance from target. Observers may not perform any other duty while operating wireless, but are not required to announce the intentions until all movement is completed. Any conscious observer may operate wireless.
3 Aerodrome Raid - attackers must successfully destroy planes on ground or bomb planes / buildings. Defenders begin game in planes on ground. For each defending player, an additional plane (roll randomly for type if more than one type available to defending side) is parked on ground, in a row in front of hangar buildings. Mission objective for attackers is to destroy planes/buildings in equal number to attacking planes. Bombs automatically destroy any building or plane in impact square. If defending plane is shot/forced down, the player may immediately take off the next turn with a 0/0 pilot in any undamaged plane remaining at aerodrome.
4 Bombing Second roll of 1D6 for objective, 1-2 = 2-4 random bridge, 3-4 = 2-4 railyard buildings or track junctions, 5-6 = 2-4 random locations. Attackers objectives, depending on scenario, are to bomb 2-4 random bridges, 2-4 railyard buildings or track junctions, or 2-4 random locations.
5 Ground Attack Second roll of 1D6 for objective, 1-2 = train, 3-4 = 2-4 transport trucks, 5-6 = 2-4 random locations. Attackers' must bomb or straff objective. Train consists of engine plus 1-6 cars (represented by player aid # counters), roll random for entry from N or S, moving towards opposite side of board. Begins entirely on board, moves at rate of 30mph, moving before players each turn. Trucks start at N or S side of board, separated by two squares and moving at 20mph, bomb damage or moving past destroyed truck slows a truck to 10mph. 6 Balloon Busting - usual setup.
Let me know your thoughts.
Planes for first VDP campaign
SE-5/5a fighters with the Bristol F.2B two-seater (with a single Lewis) for the British while the Germans will fly Albatros DIII/V and Pfalz DIII fighters with the L.V.G. C V two-seater. The heavily gunned Germans will be handicapped by an inferior 2-seater and the fact that new pilots will only have a 50% chance at flying better planes. German pilots who are shot down but live to fight another day will remain in the DIII, while Brits who wreck planes will get brand a brand new 5a.
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Post by AP on Jun 13, 2007 7:47:42 GMT -5
Kev, This looks like fun!! Count me in. I think Sept 1917 would be an appropriate date for the aircraft. I have one suggestion on the planes though... SE's & Brisfits will manhandle DIIIs. I would go DV & DVa's, with one Dr.1 for the Germans to spice it up. Also, give the Germans a Halb ClII or Hannover to better match the Brisfit, and make sure the Brisfits are 190s!
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Post by kevan on Jun 13, 2007 11:29:04 GMT -5
I think I'd rather downgrade the Brisfit than upgrade the German fighters. One way of mixing things up would be to allow new (0/0) German pilots to roll on the random table for their first mission - I think I was looking at June-July as a timeframe last night. This won't affect sign-ups, as rookie pilots won't have a chosen aircraft yet.
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Post by AP on Jun 13, 2007 11:52:01 GMT -5
Well, you could keep the Brisfits, just limit the Allies to just SEs & not 5as...the 5a is considerably better than the DIII would make for a lopsided battle...
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