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Post by AP on Apr 23, 2007 12:56:08 GMT -5
I think the solution for now should be that we have a standing rule- If all players at the 'table' do not have v8 rules then we will go by v7. That way new players have the chance to get acclimated to the game and will no doubt enjoy it enough to want to become a society member and get all the v8 'bells and whistles'.
I am planning on talking to Mr. Carr this week about the team tourney, and will be sure to mention VDP and see what he suggests about getting the rules out to this new community. Obviously joining the society is the best solution. I am not advocating that this is an 'elitest' group or anything like that, I just want to see the game thrive and the community grow. Figure a new game these days costs $40-$70 easily. You can pick up a used copy of DP 7th edition online for probably $10. If you look at it like spending an extra $12 for revised rules then u r getting a great game for only $22 AND involvement in a growing community !!
The game has been around for 30+ years now and has a continued following, so you are guaranteed play. If not, sell your copy and you can probably make back what you spent trying it out. thats my 2 cents
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Post by kevan on Apr 23, 2007 15:55:24 GMT -5
I think this is a good house rule. I have no problem with picking up the Society membership, but I'll probably wait a couple of months to make sure that VDP catches on. Otherwise, it's of little use to me, as I don't have a regular local group.
On the topic of house rules, there have been a couple of others that I've been thinking of due to a combination of VDP features and a desire to streamline online play.
1. No need to declare altitude. It should be displayed on each plane's counter, and I'm sure most players would look at that altitude and not bother to double-check the announced altitude. Each player should be required to enter the new altitude before announcing they are done moving.
2. No need to announce smoking, burning, gliding, spin. I think that the counter displays for these are visible enough that it's redundant.
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Post by Stephen on Apr 23, 2007 16:19:19 GMT -5
I think the solution for now should be that we have a standing rule- If all players at the 'table' do not have v8 rules then we will go by v7. That's a good default mode, but there will be many times when new players want to go by 8th ed. rules just to get to know them better. |
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Post by Stephen on Apr 23, 2007 16:26:23 GMT -5
I don't have a regular local group. Basically, no one has a local gaming group unless they go out and force the issue and create one. That's the only real negative about VDP... it discourages people from forming FTF groups. Otherwise, its a great thing. Hopefully, if we run VDP right, we can reverse that and actually try to increase FTF play but I'm not confident that this will be the result. I hope so, but we'll see. |
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Post by kirkh on Apr 27, 2007 6:58:58 GMT -5
I can't see VDP as anything but a positive for the DP world. Having the game online brings it into the 21st century and allows it to thrive just like other old games such as Squad Leader, Panzerblitz, etc. have. There are a lot of people out there like me that played wargames as a kid but have nobody to play them with now. Not that I wouldn't play in a FTF group if one formed, but my plate is pretty full (as is the plate of most parents of school age children) and I have no time to go out into the community and try to drum up interest in a game I have yet to play enough to even fully know the rules. All VDP does is allow people like me that have 0 chance to play FTF a chance to enjoy the game. And who knows, maybe if we see enough new online participants, a few of us may end up living near each other so we can form a FTF group that meets on occasion.
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Post by kirkh on Apr 27, 2007 7:04:55 GMT -5
BTW, if this is the place to suggest VDP module updates, our game last night revealed two "nice to haves". The first would be the ability for more than two people to share a private message. There were three of us on one side last night and it would have been nice if prior to the game we had been able to share some private talk amongst the three of us.
Second, and this is one that bit me, it would be nice if we had a generic cloud counter that has text underneath it that shows the level(s) of the clouds. The counter could be placed on the board somewhere so players can remind themselves where the clouds are.
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Post by gblemings on Apr 27, 2007 8:18:57 GMT -5
what about tying the 'altitude' on your plan setting, to the 'range' of clouds, so that your plan automatically goes invisible...
counters are fine, but you could have still missed it, but the above way, soon as you set your altitude to your new altitude, and that fell within the range, your plan greys out immediately, and reminds you...
also a message could display? warning? when this happens.
just a thought.
as mentioned a team chat room would be nice, and also some color to the chat room...different color for each person? or the ability tochange the color / fonts (like msn) for yourself. This would help pick things out a little clearer....
garyb
ps...
the game played very well as it is....
garyb
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Post by kirkh on Apr 27, 2007 8:28:35 GMT -5
I don't think a warning will work because in theory a person is not supposed to "take back" moves. That being the case, if he accidentally goes into the clouds and gets a warning or his plane disappears, he shouldn't be able to correct it. A cloud counter on the board would be a simple reminder for each pilot to be aware of where the clouds are, as I forgot to do last night.
One other impovement that was in V2 of the module George Long did was to have a larger board so players don't have to re-center their planes every turn or two. I know when I play the game solo at home I've drawn half inch squares on the back of the DP map and I use my Richthofen's War counters to play with. That alleviates the problem a great deal.
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Post by AP on May 25, 2007 8:16:07 GMT -5
I forget if it has been discussed or not, but it would be great if you could log in to multiple game rooms without having to start a whole new session. Maybe the ability to open a new 'DP content' window? That way the allied/german sides wouldnt have to launch the whole game twice. If we could make permanent rooms that would be even better! Just an idea to toss around. I am going to start a new thread on 'VDP house rules' that we began to discuss last night....
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Post by kirkh on May 25, 2007 9:19:39 GMT -5
AP - In reference to your 23 April post on this thread, my question is: Just what are "V8" rules? Over the years I've accumulated charts here and files there, but I have no way of knowing if what I have constitutes the majority of V8 changes or is just a small amount of what V8 rules will look like. Those of us not FITS members don't know what we don't have so that makes it hard to play a VDP game with anything but V7 rules.
Per your message above, I agree we need a "VDP house rules" file that incorporates what we'll be doing that's different than V7. The one we agreed on yesterday was the single deck gun up a column rule. Another that isn't in V7 but we've been using anyway is when we roll for altitude. V7 says to roll a 1D6 to determine the hundreds of feet but we've been using a 1D10. If I remember more little things we've been doing differently than V7, I'll let you know.
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Post by kevan on May 25, 2007 9:20:34 GMT -5
I sent off a write-up on house rules to Stephen, mostly to do with the practicalities of playing via Vassal. Once he has a chance to get it up, it should provide a starting point for further rules discussion. It's definitely needed, as I joined second game last night and did not think to ask if I should have been shifting my single deck gun up a chart.
The problem with the Allied/German windows is the limitations of Vassal. Neither Rex nor I have identified a way of creating team windows that have both chat and dice-rolling functions, but it's on the wish list.
Relating to both of those items, I think there should be a discussion of hidden rolls at some point. I'm a VERY big fan of hidden rolls, to the point that I purposefully ignore some of my allies' rolls in the team window. I don't think I should know where their damage is going or if they have a critical or a jammed gun. With VDP being such a small community, I wouldn't mind doing totally secret rolls except for things like pre-game plane rolls.
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Post by AP on May 25, 2007 9:34:52 GMT -5
The only problem with completely hidden rolls is the honesty factor. As long as everyone is comfortable with it, its fine, but as soon as an inkling of doubt appears, it can cause big problems. Take for example my 350' head on last night, I wouldnt have believed it myself if someone else dished out 6 hits from that range!! But i rolled the dice in view of my wingmate and there was proof in case of any doubt... so yes for the 'realistic' factor its better not to know, but to keep the game friendly and avoid any anamosity, its a good idea to keep things 'public'.
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Post by kirkh on May 25, 2007 9:37:05 GMT -5
That's a very good point. Not having played many games until the last couple months I didn't know what should be done publicly, done in front of a wingmate, or done completely privately. A list showing what needs to be seen by whom would be great.
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Post by AP on May 25, 2007 9:37:17 GMT -5
Kirk, to answer your question on 'V8 Rules' - Mr. Carr has been constantly updating charts ever since V7 was released. Most are sent to players via 'the aerodome' publication, but not everyone has them, which has resulted in a plethora of confusion. He is currently working on an offical 8th edition release of the game, at which time there will FINALLY be one set of rules. In the meantime, each circle uses the most updated stuff they have, which seems like it is hardly ever congruent with other circles!!
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Rex
Lieutenant
Posts: 118
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Post by Rex on May 25, 2007 21:10:13 GMT -5
Hi all, on the subject of Team chat rooms. I posted the following on the vassalengine Yahoo discussion group and got a reply from the Man himself!
So there you have it. Hopefully in a future update of Vassal we will get this functionality.
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