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Post by gblemings on Apr 20, 2007 10:39:16 GMT -5
ok, question...or clarification....
are you saying that some of the content that indy squadron (or any other individuals playing) is using, is copyrighted, and not available to be used by us owners of version 7.0 of dawn patrol, because we are not a member of the fits?
And because of that, you would not be able to post this content, to a webpage, for general access by people wanting to play the game?
whether they be newbie's, casual players, or avid players?
thanks garyb
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Post by kirkh on Apr 20, 2007 12:06:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure how it all works. All I know is one is supposed to be a member of FITS in order to have access to everything that's been generated (additional aircraft, updated critical hit charts, multi-engine rules, etc.) since version 7 of the game came out all those years ago. Back when I first bought the game and wanted to play online I was told I had to be a FITS member to play. My response was: "How do I know if I want to be a FITS member if I can't find anywhere to play the game?" Somebody saw the validity of my argument and sent me the username and password for the DP website so I was able to access the information for a time and play the online games. The website changed a while ago so once again I'm on the outside looking in. My worry is that this issue might come up again as we get more and more people wanting to play. Personally I say one of the caveats to play VDP should be version 7 rules and aircraft. If somebody wants to have separate VDP games that are for FITS only members that's fine, but being a FITS member should definitely not be a prerequisite to have to play any regularly scheduled VDP game. As a rule VDP games should be for the masses, then those that play regularly may have incentive to join FITS and get more involved if they choose.
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Post by Stephen on Apr 20, 2007 12:19:58 GMT -5
No, no. Everything on IndySquadron.com is original material and is ours to use. You will notice that no OFFICIAL rules or charts are included on the Indy site because I don't have the copyright. Our house rules are simply our modifications of the official rules, not the rules themselves. Its not because anyone is or is not a member of Fits... its because I don't hold the copyright to the game so I don't post the actual game materials here.
So rather than posting the actual charts for the airplanes, it would be nice to have a random airplane generator BASED on the latest charts. Make sense?
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Post by Stephen on Apr 20, 2007 12:33:35 GMT -5
How many times have each of us walked into a game store and forked over forty bucks for a game wrapped in plastic that we'd never played before? It looked good to us, so we bought it. Same with Dawn Patrol. Its a good game. You're interested. The rules package is there. You don't even have to buy anything. All they ask is that you subscribe to the newsletter and support the society, which we should all be doing anyway if we want the game to grow.
You can't possibly go wrong for 12 dollars. That's cheaper than popcorn and a movie ticket... but instead of getting two hours of fun, you get a year.
Please consider the society's position. They are trying to further the game and stay in existence and keep hope alive for a new edition. If they post all the newest game charts on the web, why should anyone ever join at all?
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Post by kirkh on Apr 20, 2007 13:42:51 GMT -5
I understand, but the problem is anybody that picks up the game for the first time doesn't necessarily care whether the society thrives or not. All they know is they bought a game and want to play it. That was (and still is) my dilemma. I've owned the game for probably a half dozen years and have only ever had the chance to play it maybe a half dozen times via the internet. I've never been able to play a real game against live people face to face. If I can't play it, then my $12 (regardless of how little that is) is wasted. All spending that money would do is provide me a quarterly reminder of the game I can't play with anybody. That's why I think any regularly scheduled VDP games can't require any sort of FITS membership to play. Sure there can be specially organized games for FITS members but new players have to have a forum to play and enjoy the game without feeling pressure to pay for something they may never receive any benefit from. Keep things available to everyone and enough players may get hooked such that they want to be part of FITS - me included. I'd be more than willing to pay $12 for a years subscription if I know when I receive it I can put some of the information contained within its pages to use.
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Post by gblemings on Apr 20, 2007 13:52:10 GMT -5
ok,
i agree that we need to support the society, as it is the source, and benifits all.
I guess the point i was trying to make, was similar to kirkh, the age old question of cart before the horse.
If the additional 'official' rules, if i can use that term, are only accessable to society members, so be it. I would gladly join the society , i would even pre-order the 8th addition...to get access to said rules.
because if i start to play this game, then i am the type of person that goes to the extreme, i will buy all the current games and expansions, all the 'newsletters' etc etc etc...
I noticed on the dawnpatrol.org website, we can pay using paypal. i will look into that, as i have tried in the past to send a Postal Money Order, but they would not cash it (Jim barbers bank that is), actually i think jim said that they would have charged him $10.00, the Money order was for $15.00...go figure (i live in Canada - but the money order was in USD funds).
sorry for the confusion, i dont want anyone to think that i do not want to support the 'game', or the society.
garyb
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Post by kirkh on Apr 20, 2007 14:16:23 GMT -5
Gary - Fully agree. I'm the same way. When I get a new game I look to try and find whatevers out there to enhance the game. My only issue is that rookies need a place to play and shouldn't feel pressured to join something they know nothing about. I worry it might turn off potential players.
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Post by Stephen on Apr 20, 2007 14:41:41 GMT -5
I understand, but the problem is anybody that picks up the game for the first time doesn't necessarily care whether the society thrives or not. All they know is they bought a game and want to play it. Those statements are somewhat exclusive, since the society's growth directly affects our ability to play the game. Still, I see your point. I don't think any games should ever require a FITS membership to play. I'm not in any way supporting that idea. I don't really know where that thought came from. I'm just saying that this game cannot be given away any more than Wal Mart can give its products away. The society supports itself through membership, and members get all the new data and new rules. That's really pretty reasonable, especially for 12 bucks.
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Post by Stephen on Apr 20, 2007 14:44:49 GMT -5
rookies need a place to play and shouldn't feel pressured to join something they know nothing about. I worry it might turn off potential players. That's very true. And I absolutely do not support requiring anyone to be a member to play... ever. Anyone should be able to play. However, those who really like the game and would like advance copies of the 8th edition rules can get them by joining the society and everyone wins.
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Post by kirkh on Apr 20, 2007 16:01:12 GMT -5
That's the perfect win-win situation. Allow newbies to get to learn the game and see how addicting it is.
As for requiring FITS membership in order to participate, that's just something I brought up that happened to me in the past and I wanted to ensure that won't happen in this case. It's more than just the membership issue because it goes to determining how games will be played. If everyone is allowed to play then rules will have to revert back to the latest that are available to everyone, which is the 7th edition. That will probably require many vets to "unlearn" things that have become commonplace in face to face over the years.
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Post by Stephen on Apr 20, 2007 16:39:51 GMT -5
As for requiring FITS membership in order to participate, that's just something I brought up that happened to me in the past and I wanted to ensure that won't happen in this case. It won't happen as long as I'm part of it. ISD is there to bring in new people, not push them away. Maybe there was a purpose in it last time, but this is our baby and we can run it as we see fit.
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Rex
Lieutenant
Posts: 118
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Post by Rex on Apr 22, 2007 21:44:34 GMT -5
I have updated this post with the release of v1.1. Everyone please try it out and see if there are things that need tweeked, added or removed for the next version.
-Rex
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Post by Stephen on Apr 23, 2007 9:21:53 GMT -5
I either need the download file to post on the VDP page, or a URL to link with.
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Rex
Lieutenant
Posts: 118
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Post by Rex on Apr 23, 2007 9:26:04 GMT -5
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Orion
Lieutenant
Posts: 127
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Post by Orion on Apr 23, 2007 11:06:47 GMT -5
This is not an enhancement request, but just a suggestion on enhancing the experience of playing online. Maybe you all do this already, but I wanted to suggest using Teamspeak to communicate while playing. It is free and I run a teamspeak server 24/7. I will setup a dedicated Dawn Patrol channel and post the link here later tonight. You will need a mic and speakers or headphones. I suggest a Logitech headset with a boom mic. They are 10-20$, even wal-mart sells them now.
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