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Post by Stephen on Feb 24, 2010 0:27:24 GMT -5
Stephen, is it your position that the US military DELIBERATELY disregards the safety of non-combatants or civilians? Yes, and we have a long and verifiable history of doing so. The Norden bomb sight used in WWII placed less than 7% of its bombs within 300 yards of the intended target, yet we bombed highly populated areas - on THOUSANDS of occasions - deliberately with the full knowledge that more than 93% of them would fall on innocent women and children. The bombing of both Hiroshima alone killed more than 100,000 innocent civilians with a blast that scorched the earth for dozens of miles in every direction, wildly beyond anything remotely related to a "military" target. Same with Nagasaki. Same with Tokyo. Same with 35,000 innocent civilians incinerated by US bombs at Dresden. The actual military facilities north of Dresden, BTW, were totally untouched and stand to this day. Same with Wounded Knee. Same with dozens of American Indian tribes. Same with Fallujah. Same with Baghdad. The list is endless. The United States of America does indeed consistently disregard the safety of civilians and regularly attack non-combatants and has done so repeatedly and deliberately for over 150 years.
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Flydude
Second Lieutenant
Sorry, I don't have one of those Motorised-Navi body thingies.
Posts: 50
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Post by Flydude on Feb 24, 2010 15:43:13 GMT -5
Bin laden is an insane madman, a liar, Devil spawn, a tool of evil, satin's fist. Take your pick. Prove. It.
ROTF LOL!!! .......you're serious aren't you? Well....training terrorists to fly planes into OUR countries buildings is evil....and if you don't think so well thats your problem. And please don't go and say "Well that was some sort of self-defense against us" Really? is Bin landen a evil man? Does Elmer Fud have a problem with the letter R? @stephen I know the Gov. is a big mean bully taking away our lunch money(in your case freedoms) But guess what Stephen? THATS NOT ABOUT TO CHANGESo unless you're going to go find a little island in the South Pacific sometime soon, you're stuck here. And also don't tell my brother to question his faith, he will believe what he wants and same with you, and that's fine. I say we just drop this and let me and my brother get back focusing on our school and life other then this pointless argument. (Oh yeah. Since you dropped the argument about Franklin with Rick and moved on, it would probably be wise to drop this one as well.)
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 24, 2010 16:11:15 GMT -5
ROTF LOL!!! .......you're serious aren't you? Well....training terrorists to fly planes into OUR countries buildings is evil....and if you don't think so well thats your problem. And please don't go and say "Well that was some sort of self-defense against us" Really? is Bin landen a evil man? Does Elmer Fud have a problem with the letter R? "Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women." – Osama bin Ladentaken from the following link: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11
Sorry, but Osama is a sane man defending his homeland, not someone who woke up one day and decided to be an evil supervillain in league with Dr. Octopus and The Joker @stephen I know the Gov. is a big mean bully taking away our lunch money(in your case freedoms) But guess what Stephen? THATS NOT ABOUT TO CHANGESo unless you're going to go find a little island in the South Pacific sometime soon, you're stuck here. And also don't tell my brother to question his faith, he will believe what he wants and same with you, and that's fine. I say we just drop this and let me and my brother get back focusing on our school and life other then this pointless argument. Chillax dude. Nobody is picking on your brother. Next time you guys are over for dawn patrol we're going to do what we always do, have a good time, a few deep political discussions that go nowhere, eat pizza, and have even more of a good time. Michael started the discussion, if he came in and respectfully said this is over my head, or, this is detracting from my school time, then he could do that and we'd all leave him be. Take a pill dude. (Oh yeah. Since you dropped the argument about Franklin with Rick and moved on, it would probably be wise to drop this one as well.) And the award for the most uncouth statement goes to....
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 24, 2010 17:39:05 GMT -5
ROTF LOL!!! .......you're serious aren't you? Well....training terrorists to fly planes into OUR countries buildings is evil....and if you don't think so well thats your problem. And please don't go and say "Well that was some sort of self-defense against us" Really? is Bin landen a evil man? Does Elmer Fud have a problem with the letter R? "Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women." – Osama bin LadenDo two wrongs make a right? And answer the question with a yes or no.(Oh yeah. Since you dropped the argument about Franklin with Rick and moved on, it would probably be wise to drop this one as well.) And the award for the most uncouth statement goes to.... He's right.
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 24, 2010 17:44:07 GMT -5
"Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women." – Osama bin LadenDo two wrongs make a right? And answer the question with a yes or no.No. Now that I have shown you the courtesy of answering your loaded question answer one of mine. Are you telling me that Osama was not supposed to defend himself when his country was under attack? And answer the question with a yes or no.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 24, 2010 17:46:19 GMT -5
"Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women." – Osama bin Ladentaken from the following link: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11
Sorry, but Osama is a sane man defending his homeland, not someone who woke up one day and decided to be an evil supervillain in league with Dr. Octopus and The Joker [/quote] My word. I can't believe you guys are saying this stuff. You asked me earlier if I've met him, you sound like you are ready to enlist in his cause.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 24, 2010 17:47:46 GMT -5
The only way that you can possibly make these statements about Osama Bin Laden is if you believe what he says lock, stock and barrel. And the only reason you are doing that is because your hatred of what you feel America has become has blinded you.
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 24, 2010 17:47:55 GMT -5
My point was that a teenager has no business whatsoever saying that to someone who has triple his life experience. True or not it makes you look extraordinarily foolish. And no, he's not right. You started the argument, and you should see it through.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 24, 2010 17:48:59 GMT -5
Do you quote from Hitler to defend him as a nice guy and persecuted patriot too?
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 24, 2010 17:52:12 GMT -5
The only way that you can possibly make these statements about Osama Bin Laden is if you believe what he says lock, stock and barrel. And the only reason you are doing that is because your hatred of what you feel America has become has blinded you. *smacks head KEVIN!!!! you know me dude. I'm not enlisting in his cause. All I am saying is that the man has a logical reason for his actions. Why is that so hard for you to swallow?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 24, 2010 17:52:27 GMT -5
You should question your faith every day. You should question God's existence, the divinity of Christ, the virgin birth and the resurrection continually. Every day you fail to do so is another day of living in defiance of God's word. Do not be so afraid to hold your beliefs up in the light of truth. They will stand the test. You will soon begin believing, not because you are a blind follower, but because of genuine conviction and evidence. Your faith will be strengthened because of it, and that is why we are told to seek truth. We are to continually seek truth at all costs, to seek understanding, to seek wisdom and to re-examine and reconsider everything. Failure to do so is rebellion against scriptural commands. I don't generally disagree with what you are saying here. There is certainly a benefit to closely examining everything you believe in light of what God's Word teaches us. That is how you become more versed in what you believe and more rooted in the faith. The problem with what you are saying isn't that. The problem with what you are saying is that you're basically saying we have to accept your view that all government is wicked or we are not examining our faith and we're only believing propaganda. I think you and Michael are having a communication problem right now, and that is the heart of it. This is no longer an argument about government for me. Because government is here to stay and it's not going anywhere any time soon, that is a fact, so if you really hate it that bad you should do what Wes said and find a nice little island somewhere in the South Pacific. You profit as much as the next guy from this "Nation, founded on Liberty". This is now an argument over whether I should question my faith and believe Stephan's preconceived "truth", or, if I should hold steadfast to Christ and His truth. I choose the latter. What is your definition of truth Stephan? And you still haven't answered my question. What is truth if fallible men determine "truth"? Every choice we make, every thought we think, every thing we do. It is all based on our worldview, our morals, on our version of "truth". whether it be Christ, the only Truth. Or our own notion of "truth".Truth for Hitler was that tall, blond haired, blue eyed humans of Germanic decent, were superior to all other races, do you know who influenced his version of "truth"? It would happen to be non other than the atheist Charles Darwin, father of the lie of what? The racist cult of evolution! If truth is the only absolute than why don't you defend Hitler? Because according to him he had the "truth", the world just wasn't ready for it. And he just felt that it was only a matter of time before the Jews and all of Europe would attack his people, he was only acting in self defense. Right? My truth is based on the only Truth, Jesus Christ. John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." An Eternal Being of enough power to throw the stars and planets into place is not to be taken like lightly. His Word is not to be thrown about as if can be argued against. Luke 4:12 Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'" I WILL NOT QUESTION MY FAITH AND I WILL NOT TEST CHRIST.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 24, 2010 17:52:47 GMT -5
Do two wrongs make a right? And answer the question with a yes or no.No. Now that I have shown you the courtesy of answering your loaded question answer one of mine. Are you telling me that Osama was not supposed to defend himself when his country was under attack? And answer the question with a yes or no.No. The country was not HIS. He was and is a usurper who takes power by force and terror. This is all about the hatred of the Arab world towards Israel. The USA and our allies has always acted to defend Israel so they turned their hatred towards us.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Feb 24, 2010 17:55:17 GMT -5
The only way that you can possibly make these statements about Osama Bin Laden is if you believe what he says lock, stock and barrel. And the only reason you are doing that is because your hatred of what you feel America has become has blinded you. *smacks head KEVIN!!!! you know me dude. I'm not enlisting in his cause. All I am saying is that the man has a logical reason for his actions. Why is that so hard for you to swallow? Because it is foolhardy to believe a word the liar and usurper says. Satan is a liar and the father of it. He's a usurper. Osama is more like HIM than he is like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 24, 2010 17:55:26 GMT -5
Do you quote from Hitler to defend him as a nice guy and persecuted patriot too? Did we supply weapons and an entire fleet to a country that killed his women and children? If we did then guess what my answer is gonna be...
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 24, 2010 17:59:50 GMT -5
Because it is foolhardy to believe a word the liar and usurper says. Satan is a liar and the father of it. He's a usurper. Osama is more like HIM than he is like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. So at this point you can bend, distort, or twist anything he says to fit your worldview. Ok, well. You win this debate. I can't talk to people when they start that.
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