Things You're Not Supposed to Know

[Stephen]

Part I:

American war crimes in World War II.

www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,692037,00.html

[albpilot]

Another look at the way the police actually practice their trade (in this case, the NYPD):

www.villagevoice.com/2010-05-04/news/the-nypd-tapes-inside-bed-stuy-s-81st-precinct

[Stephen]

WHOA. What a story.

If people had the slightest idea what actually occurs within police departments, police would be outlawed nationwide overnight and our country would be safer and more secure for it.

In fact, those of you who actually read the constitution know that police departments ARE outlawed. Not that we actually abide by it anymore.

[albpilot]

May 12, 2010 16:49:58 GMT -5 Stephen said:

WHOA. What a story.

If people had the slightest idea what actually occurs within police departments, police would be outlawed nationwide overnight and our country would be safer and more secure for it.

In fact, those of you who actually read the constitution know that police departments ARE outlawed. Not that we actually abide by it anymore.

I have quite a bit of respect for police in general, they do a tough thankless job. My take on this is that the corruption power creates is perhaps more pervasive than the general public (i.e., non-officers) realizes, that is what makes these sorts of things worth getting out there.

[Stephen]

I have very little.

First, because any decent human being will decline the opportunity to have god-like power. Remember, a cop has more power than both houses of the entire United States Congress combined. George Washington had an opportunity at this type of god-status, and he had the character to turn it down. I expect no less of cops.

Secondly, because no decent human being will initiate force against another. It is immoral. Nearly every act police take is an initiation of force (or its threat).

The thirdly, because police work is presented as heroic, daring and dangerous, when in reality it is not a remotely dangerous job. Fishing, logging, construction work and truck driving are all more dangerous jobs than police work. The notion that police are somehow taking risks beyond that of the average person is pure propaganda.

And finally, because they do not, in fact, work an actual "job." A job occurs when one person voluntarily exchanges goods or services with another. Government work cannot be considered a "job" because it does not rely on voluntary exchange. It relies on threats of violence to compel people accept and fund services that they may or may not have voluntarily chosen on their own. So the very concept that police works genuine jobs is fundamentally flawed.

For that reason, I reject the idea that "the job may not be perfect, but there are some good men doing it." That is untrue. A good man will quit such a job or get fired. If one of those two things doesn't occur, he is not a "good" man at all.

[albpilot]

Might as well post this one here...it's something that not too many people think about.

You have two families: “Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”.
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes
$25.00 per hour with taxes deducted (Edit: Before Taxes).

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and
gets paid $15.00 cash “under the table”.

Ready? Now pay attention…

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00
per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has
$31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0
per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his
family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
year.. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and
welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $9,631 .00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose
Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose
Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now
has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, “We don’t need no stinkin’ insurance!” and still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
and what he sends out of the country every month..

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal’s and Jose Illegal’s children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children’s lunches while Jose Illegal’s children get
a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal’s children have an after school
ESL program. Joe Legal’s children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens…

You are part of the problem!

Credit goes to Kj for the breakdown.

[Stephen]

I object to the premise that Americans should be forced to carry state papers, for any reason at any time regardless of race or religion.

I object to the contradictory notion that the existence of a human being in a free country can somehow be "illegal."

I also object to the supposition that stealing is acceptable under any circumstances. Allow me to explain:

When government steals from you and gives the loot to a policeman, it is immoral. When government steals from you and gives the loot to a Mexican, it is immoral. The act of stealing is immoral - who the stolen money is given to is irrelevant.

Raising a stink over an "illegal human" receiving stolen money while conveniently ignoring the stolen funds given to welfare recipients, government workers, recipients of government grants, Medicaid and Medicare recipients, Social Security recipients, WIC recipients, public housing tenants, and thousands of others on the government dole is hypocritical.

We have been conditioned to protest not the theft itself, but the act of giving the stolen loot to an unapproved individual. That is backwards.

We should be opposing the actual act of stealing... theft does not become right or wrong depending on the identity or race of the person receiving the stolen loot.

Stealing is wrong.

Always.

[Michael]

May 13, 2010 12:50:38 GMT -5 Stephen said:

First, because any decent human being will decline the opportunity to have god-like power.

Are you saying all humans are inherently good?
Sounds alot like Thomas Jefferson.

[albpilot]

May 16, 2010 17:57:31 GMT -5 Stephen said:

I object to the premise that Americans should be forced to carry state papers, for any reason at any time regardless of race or religion.

I object to the contradictory notion that the existence of a human being in a free country can somehow be "illegal."

I also object to the supposition that stealing is acceptable under any circumstances. Allow me to explain:

When government steals from you and gives the loot to a policeman, it is immoral. When government steals from you and gives the loot to a Mexican, it is immoral. The act of stealing is immoral - who the stolen money is given to is irrelevant.

Raising a stink over an "illegal human" receiving stolen money while conveniently ignoring the stolen funds given to welfare recipients, government workers, recipients of government grants, Medicaid and Medicare recipients, Social Security recipients, WIC recipients, public housing tenants, and thousands of others on the government dole is hypocritical.

We have been conditioned to protest not the theft itself, but the act of giving the stolen loot to an unapproved individual. That is backwards.

We should be opposing the actual act of stealing... theft does not become right or wrong depending on the identity or race of the person receiving the stolen loot.

Stealing is wrong.

Always.

I think that is a valid observation, but the main point as discussed is equally valid. An entrenched system cannot be corrected at the root cause for many factors. To correct it, you need to peel back the layers to get to the root. That's what this is illustrating. Start by eliminating a major problem on the surface, then proceed inward.

[Stephen]

May 16, 2010 19:14:13 GMT -5 Michael said:

Are you saying all humans are inherently good?

No, I am not saying that, nor are words to that effect to be found anywhere in my post. If I intended to say that, I would have written something like this:

"I believe that all human beings are inherently good."

Sounds alot like Thomas Jefferson.

No, it sounds nothing like Thomas Jefferson. It sounds a great deal like something that has been repeatedly attributed to Thomas Jefferson by others, but it sounds nothing like Jefferson himself.

[Stephen]

May 17, 2010 11:40:14 GMT -5 albpilot said:

I think that is a valid observation, but the main point as discussed is equally valid. An entrenched system cannot be corrected at the root cause for many factors. To correct it, you need to peel back the layers to get to the root. That's what this is illustrating. Start by eliminating a major problem on the surface, then proceed inward.

I still believe that for many reasons, the anti-immigrant paranoia spreading throughout the country is very wrong, dangerous and ill-informed. However, I agree that the point above about removing an entrenched system in layers has merit.

[noski]

I have NO problem with legal immigrants. I have my grandfather's immigration papers. On line 30b , he agrees to learn to speak english. No one changed the street signs in Pittston PA to the Polish language. He came to this country to do work no one else would do either. He set the dynamite and blasting caps in a coal mine. His ability to work ended when the mountain collapsed on him, crushing his pelvis. I cannot stand the attitude of Hispanics that think it is OK to come to USA illegally ,for any reason they can come up with. I do not agree with AZ's new law however.

[Stephen]

I believe there is a FAR higher level of debate on this topic that is not being addressed. We keep focusing on petty irrelevancies such as who receives money stolen by government and what laws should be passed forcing people to carry state papers, but we miss the big principles at stake:

1) no human being on American soil should be required to have, possess, carry or display state papers for any reason at any time.

2) when government steals money from one person and gives it to another, it is WRONG.

3) Stealing doesn't become morally acceptable simply because the money is given to someone who has the right state papers.

4) When government steals from you to give to a Mexican without state papers, everyone is in an uproar. But when government steals your money and gives it to a white trash chick with four illegitimate children on WIC living in public housing, where is the moral outrage? Stealing is stealing and it's WRONG.

5) We claim to be the "home of the brave." We sing songs about how "freedom isn't free" and how we must be willing to die for liberty. But when it comes to actually taking a risk - such as allowing immigrants to live freely in our midst without state papers - we suddenly have no courage at all. We shrink into cowardice, tucking our tail between our legs and screeching for The Almighty State to save us from the Mexican barbarians. What happened to our willingness to sacrifice for freedom? Or is liberty so meaningless to us now that we refuse to take any risk for it at all?

6) We have given up our rights and now carry state papers everywhere. So - like spoiled children - we now demand that everyone else give up their liberty and begin carrying state papers as well. Is is possible for a human being to get any lower? Or more immature? Are we really so petty and jealous as to insist that others give up their liberty without a fight just like we did?

7) Every single human being who exists on American soil without state papers is a blow for freedom. Every single "illegal" Mexican in America is a reminder to the government that there are still some people out there with courage, who refuse to be manipulated and controlled, and who are willing to strike back. I thank God for every "illegal" Mexican in America today. They are the best hope for a nation of cowards who have given up their liberty and has devolved into such a pathetic state that they will not rest until everyone else has, too.

[noski]

I put my money where my mouth is by fighting the Federal government by refusing to pay income tax. It nearly cost me everything, including my freedom. I lost.Words alone won't change a thing.