New Indy House Rule

[Michael]

(Stephan, I think you may have suggested this before.)

The Iron Cross 2nd Class....It was given out like candy. (5,200,000 were awarded)
Which is why I think it would be a very good idea to incorporate it into the IS, seeing as how so many new players are coming into the game. I really think it would spark there interest if the second time they flew a pilot he (or she) got a medal, I tried it out the one game me and my siblings did. (Vickie's pilot got it and she was elated. )
So.....what say ye of Indy Squadron?

[albpilot]

Mar 24, 2010 11:26:03 GMT -5 Michael said:

(Stephan, I think you may have suggested this before.)

The Iron Cross 2nd Class....It was given out like candy. (5,200,000 were awarded)
Which is why I think it would be a very good idea to incorporate it into the IS, seeing as how so many new players are coming into the game. I really think it would spark there interest if the second time they flew a pilot he (or she) got a medal, I tried it out the one game me and my siblings did. (Vickie's pilot got it and she was elated. )
So.....what say ye of Indy Squadron?

Sure, why not....why not also stop giving out first place trophies (you'd get a 'participation' award instead at RBF), or keeping score (because we don't want to penalize you for having high initiative numbers all game)?

Seriously, it's probably worth discussing next gameday I suppose.

[Stephen]

I have long supported the awarding of early, low level medals.

More experienced players may one day disregard them entirely and that's their prerogative, but they can be very encouraging to a new player. Awarding an IC 2nd class doesn't cost anyone anything. It is historically supportable. It is encouraging to new players. And yes, the Germans really did hand them out to pretty much everyone for precisely the same reasons!

Sometimes we forget that for a new player, getting 12 missions may as well be a lifetime. If we want new players in the game, we should make the game attractive to them early in their careers.

This is an easy way to do it that is totally harmless and costs nothing to anyone else. I would say to award it on their 3rd mission or 1st kill from which they return alive. But I'll vote in favor of this in almost any form.

[Michael]

Looks like 2 "yeas" to 0 "nays" so far....

[KevinR]

Sounds like a good idea to me. I'd agree with Stephen, 3rd mission or 1st kill are good early benchmarks....

[noski]

The Arizona guys give out Iron Crosses to their pilots as well. When Rudolf Berthold (44 kills) received his IC1st class in 1914 he wept because it still was a big deal. But by the war's end they were common. (they came with the rations as Neal O'Connor told me once...) I think the general feeling is when a German pilot starts receiving noted medals it is assumed he has the both IC classes already. No harm in setting up a procedure for receipt though.

[Michael]

It's 3 to zip in favor of the "yeas". (We'll have an offical vote on Saturday!!! ;D)

[albpilot]

Mar 25, 2010 11:54:09 GMT -5 Michael said:

It's 3 to 1 in favor of the "yeas". (We'll have an offical vote on Saturday!!! ;D)

Who's the nay? Not me, I never committed either way (although I did point out the underlying principle involved, lol).

[Michael]

Mar 25, 2010 12:40:46 GMT -5 albpilot said:

Mar 25, 2010 11:54:09 GMT -5 Michael said:

It's 3 to 1 in favor of the "yeas". (We'll have an offical vote on Saturday!!! ;D)

Who's the nay? Not me, I never committed either way (although I did point out the underlying principle involved, lol).

My mistake, your post looked like you were going to say "nay".

I'll fix it.

[Michael]

Well dang gunit if we forgot to vote on Saturday!! (bangs head)

[albpilot]

Mar 30, 2010 12:27:52 GMT -5 Michael said:

Well dang gunit if we forgot to vote on Saturday!! (bangs head)

No worries, it can be voted on next time.

[Michael]

Mar 30, 2010 20:29:53 GMT -5 albpilot said:

Mar 30, 2010 12:27:52 GMT -5 Michael said:

Well dang gunit if we forgot to vote on Saturday!! (bangs head)

No worries, it can be voted on next time.

We could just vote here.

[Stephen]

Votes must take place at an officially scheduled gaming day. Please don't mistake that as a snooty formality... there is a genuine purpose behind it.

People who miss gaming days know in advance that rules can be passed in their absence. If they want to be there, they can. If not, they risk missing a chance to vote. They can't say "Well, I couldn't get on the forum last week" or "my computer crashed." No one can ever say that they didn't have a chance to vote. If you don't come to gaming days, don't complain when something is passed without you!!! We've even had instances where a player knew in advance that a vote was coming up and they couldn't make that gaming day, so they requested a vote in absentia or holding the vote until another gaming day.

And in a live setting, no one can re-set cookies on their computer to vote twice, or constantly change their position.

I'm not opposed to changing it if we vote (at our next gaming day) to do so, but restricting votes to official gaming days promotes attendance, clarifies each person's position, and sets a finite time limit to arrive at a definite conclusion.

The forum has always been the place to debate rules, and gaming days are where we pass them.

Again, I'm not married to the idea, but it has served us well.

[Stephen]

If we're going to vote on this, I say we come up with a firm plan here and vote on it at the next event. And it might as well include both 1st and 2nd class.

I offer this as actual language for the house rule:

Iron Cross 2nd class - Roll 1, 2, 3 or 4 on 1D6 upon completion of third mission or confirmation of 1st kill, and re-roll after every subsequent 1M and/or 1K until received. No posthumous awards.

Iron Cross 1st class - Prerequisite: IC 2nd class. Roll 1, 2 or 3 after every mission until received. No posthumous awards.

And yes, Rick, I agree about the principle of the thing. But we did not make this up. It is based on historical precedent. The Germans really did adopt this principle (lousy as it may have been) and handed these things out to everyone. And there is a clear benefit to young players, but no measurable negative impact.

Additionally, the "no posthumous awards" thing will help reinforce the importance of survival.

[alien01]

Just throwing in some comments, even though I'm not entitled to a vote. In 1916 most recruits to aviation were transfers from other branches of service. Although I don't have exact figures I'd guess 90% had already received the IC2 during their service with the infantry or whatever. Stephen, I'd suggest transposing your requirements: roll after every mission for the IC2, for the IC1 roll after the third mission or the IC2 award whichever is later.

Although the no posthumous awards is certainly historical, I'd like to point out that there was one posthumous award of the Blue Max, to observer Wilhelm Paul Schreiber killed in a Junkers J.I while doing an infantry support mission. I wouldn't object if the unanimous vote of the table gave a rookie pilot a roll for a posthumous IC2 for a bravery B deed.