Dan's Stuff

[noski]

K,
How can the bible be infallible when your 'modern translation' totally changes the meaning and intent of God's word? Kill and murder are not the same.

I find it intesting that when I asked about Yahweh ,Stephen doubted I would accept 'the' answer ,suspecting a trap and Kevin just answered with his belief. I was checking to see if the whole one god/two entity thing was still in vogue like when I was schooled.

[KevinR]

Dan I'm not worried about any questions you have my friend. I'd be glad to answer them.

First of all modern translations do contain minor errors in translation and copying. This was bound to be the case because it's two completely different languages and two completely different time periods.

Does that make the Word of God in English unreliable? Not in the least.

There are many numerous proofs that can be given in regards to the reliability of Scripture.

But no reputable scholar should be arguing the inerrancy of the English translations. What we have are very good and reliable translations of the original Scriptures, and the errors that exist are extremely minor and do not affect the message of the Bible as a whole.

[KevinR]

Dan "Do not murder" is a very good translation of the original Hebrew language used. Many Hebrew scholars who have plenty more years studying their own language than you and I would agree with this......

[noski]

SD,
Earlier you mentioned that I was the only non Christian on the forum. Could be true.
So let me tell you what I do believe...
God created all that exists around us in a time of His chosing.
He is responsible for the existence of mankind. (The little hominid bones and Neandethal bones that have been dug may have been His first attempts)
He gave men souls because He loves us and wants us to be with Him when we are done here on Earth.
He has chosen holy men to guide the various peoples on earth over time in ways that match their rhythyms and ways of life and show them how to be with Him and live a good life while here on earth.
I believe Jesus was a special man, not God. The original Greek manuscripts the Gospels are taken from say that on the day of his baptism God said,"This is my adopted son in whom I am well pleased." It was later changed to 'begotten' son in the bible to fit someone's agenda.
Because he loved God , Jesus allowed himself to suffer a horrible death. God loved Jesus so much he gave him back his life as an example to us. My hope is if I follow Jesus' two commandments and trust that my death is in God's hands( Can't be much worse than Jesus' death) that I too will given new life and be with God.
I find the Buhddist version of the Golden rule more to my liking. "Treat someone as they wish to be treated" The Christian version is arrogant(IMHO) because it assumes the way your neighbor would like to be treated is of course the way to be treated because that's the way YOU"d like to be treated.
So what am I ?

[phoenix]

Mar 19, 2010 14:10:29 GMT -5 noski said:

SD,
Earlier you mentioned that I was the only non Christian on the forum. Could be true.
So let me tell you what I do believe...
God created all that exists around us in a time of His chosing.
He is responsible for the existence of mankind. (The little hominid bones and Neandethal bones that have been dug may have been His first attempts)
He gave men souls because He loves us and wants us to be with Him when we are done here on Earth.
He has chosen holy men to guide the various peoples on earth over time in ways that match their rhythyms and ways of life and show them how to be with Him and live a good life while here on earth.
I believe Jesus was a special man, not God. The original Greek manuscripts the Gospels are taken from say that on the day of his baptism God said,"This is my adopted son in whom I am well pleased." It was later changed to 'begotten' son in the bible to fit someone's agenda.
Because he loved God , Jesus allowed himself to suffer a horrible death. God loved Jesus so much he gave him back his life as an example to us. My hope is if I follow Jesus' two commandments and trust that my death is in God's hands( Can't be much worse than Jesus' death) that I too will given new life and be with God.
I find the Buhddist version of the Golden rule more to my liking. "Treat someone as they wish to be treated" The Christian version is arrogant(IMHO) because it assumes the way your neighbor would like to be treated is of course the way to be treated because that's the way YOU"d like to be treated.
So what am I ?

No Clue. ;D

The crux, as i understand it, is the cross. No matter how good a life you may or may not live you have virtually no form of atonement for the sins you've committed unless you accept the sacrifice on the cross.

I'm not sure what that would be labeled. (Some form of Judaism? I'm not being smart, i genuinely don't know.)

If I could asnwer a question with questions

1 why do you not believe jesus was god?
2 what form of atonement are you offering for your sins and what proof do you have that god will accept it?

I'm not trying to poke holes, i am genuinly curious

[Stephen]

Mar 19, 2010 13:28:51 GMT -5 noski said:

I find it intesting that when I asked about Yahweh ,Stephen doubted I would accept 'the' answer ,suspecting a trap

I cannot imagine that you aren't aware that both Christians and modern Jews trace their ancestry to the Old Testament.

If Jesus was the messiah, then it is perfectly logical for Christians to adhere to the OT and claim it as their own script. If he was not, then it is perfectly logical that the modern Jews reject the New Testament entirely.

So rather than beat a dead horse, I am just suggesting that you go ahead and make any point you wish. It's not like you didn't know the above already.

[noski]

Mar 20, 2010 11:56:26 GMT -5 Stephen said:

Mar 19, 2010 13:28:51 GMT -5 noski said:

I find it intesting that when I asked about Yahweh ,Stephen doubted I would accept 'the' answer ,suspecting a trap

I cannot imagine that you aren't aware that both Christians and modern Jews trace their ancestry to the Old Testament.

If Jesus was the messiah, then it is perfectly logical for Christians to adhere to the OT and claim it as their own script. If he was not, then it is perfectly logical that the modern Jews reject the New Testament entirely.

So rather than beat a dead horse, I am just suggesting that you go ahead and make any point you wish. It's not like you didn't know the above already.

[noski]

Stephen,
I wonder how the Jews feel about another religion hijacking their holy words as its own.
(still trying to figure out how you guys do that qouting stuff which is why the previous post says nada...)

[Stephen]

If Jesus was the true messiah prophecied in the OT, then we who believe in Jesus as the messiah are not "hijacking" anything. Rather, they are the ones who left their own faith.

If, on the other hand, the Jews are correct and Jesus was NOT the messiah prophesied in the OT, then our belief in the NT is invalidated but our observance of the OT is still correct within it's own context.

How is this a problem for either party? I certainly don't mind if a Jew who has converted to Christianity quote the NT.

[noski]

How is this a problem for either party? I certainly don't mind if a Jew who has converted to Christianity quote the NT.

I don't know if it is a problem. I wish I knew someone of the Jewish faith to discuss it with. I'll have to dig more. There is a synagogue in town.
A Jew converted to Christianity would have every right to quote the NT, he's a Christian! But what if a Jew told you how to interpret a certain passage in the NT?

[noski]

SD,
Like I said. The original greek scripture says 'adopted son' not 'begotten son'. Historical. Factual. Anyone who can read ancient Greek can see it for themselves. From a biblical sense, look at what Jesus does before every miracle. He pray's to his Father that the miracle he is asking for to take place. Jesus himself doesn't commit the miracle.
I ask God for forgiveness of my sins .If I am not truly sorry, He'll know.I don't need proof.
The atonement for sin is a man made control mechanism. The Catholics want a baby baptized (ie locked in ) into the faith ASAP. So they made up 'original sin' (Adam and Eve's sin) and believe everyone is born with it. If you die with OS on your soul, you can't get to heaven. The only way to get rid of OS is to be baptized onto the Catholic faith.
You wouldn't want your 3 week old child denied heaven if it were to die, would you? (They ignore the fact Jesus wasn't baptized until he was 30)

[Stephen]

Mar 20, 2010 14:17:27 GMT -5 noski said:

what if a Jew told you how to interpret a certain passage in the NT?

I would say he has a right to his opinion.

Maybe I just don't understand where you're going with this.

[Stephen]

Mar 20, 2010 14:55:48 GMT -5 noski said:

You wouldn't want your 3 week old child denied heaven if it were to die, would you? (They ignore the fact Jesus wasn't baptized until he was 30)

Since we don't believe that baptism is necessary to salvation, we wouldn't argue your point.

[noski]

Just joking about the 3 week old baby...

[Stephen]

AHA! I get it.