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Post by Stephen on Mar 15, 2010 10:59:33 GMT -5
Yesterday at 12:34pm, Michael wrote: Ok fine I admit I misinterpreted some information that I researched, but then again it did come off wikipidea.  That's completely understandable. I do not consider your statement above to be any sort of "victory" for me. I am not gloating or condemning in any way. I am trying to get you to a point where you will fairly consider opposing views - and it is impossible to reach that point until you can admit that you were (at least in this instance) in error. Nothing more!! I hope you will re-read my position below and - this time - hear me out completely and objectively. _________________ I listed eleven of the primary, fundamental motivations that compelled the founders to fight the American War for Independence. It is noteworthy that most people who claim to be conservative Christians neither understand nor adhere to a single one of the eleven primary reasons listed that caused the founders to fight in the Revolution. It is therefore illogical for a conservative Christian to believe that he or she would automatically have sided with the revolutionaries merely because he or she is a conservative Christian. The plain, raw facts of history strongly indicate that the vast majority of modern conservative Christians would have remained Tories and Loyalists. Modern conservative Christians mirror the Loyalist/Tory model to near perfection. Therefore, we should re-examine our own beliefs, and ask ourselves - honestly, in the light of historical truth - whether we truly represent the belief system of the founding fathers that we so frequently attempt to align ourselves with. And once we make that determination, we should allow it to impact and alter our current beliefs. |
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Post by Stephen on Mar 16, 2010 9:34:47 GMT -5
Got mighty quiet in here all the sudden.
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noski
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Post by noski on Mar 16, 2010 12:33:33 GMT -5
The only place I know of that still thinks like the FFs is Vermont. They are the only state that has indicted Bush and Cheney as war criminals, and I believe the FFs would too. They are also a very independent thinking people as well. A tough crowd to fool.
Personally, I have a hard time fathoming how a Christian can be against abortion , yet have no qualm about the country they live in using their tax dollars to build and use bombs and explosives to literally shred a child's body to pieces in another country for no other reason than the child was in the right place at the right time. I just can't reconcile that.
And when did Jesus become a US citizen? Doesn't he belong to the world? Why do we say God bless the USA ? Shouldn't it be , God bless the world?
Anyway, I was pulled away from my post and I forgot where I was going with this so I'll let it stand as is.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 16, 2010 16:39:47 GMT -5
Got mighty quiet in here all the sudden. Because the entire post was what you might call a "presumptive question". So I shall do what you do and refuse to even consider answering it. |
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KevinR
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Post by KevinR on Mar 16, 2010 21:12:20 GMT -5
Personally, I have a hard time fathoming how a Christian can be against abortion , yet have no qualm about the country they live in using their tax dollars to build and use bombs and explosives to literally shred a child's body to pieces in another country for no other reason than the child was in the right place at the right time. I just can't reconcile that. And when did Jesus become a US citizen? Doesn't he belong to the world? Why do we say God bless the USA ? Shouldn't it be , God bless the world? Anyway, I was pulled away from my post and I forgot where I was going with this so I'll let it stand as is. Dan, do you make the same arguments against guns which are also used to kill innocent people AND babies? Or do you recognize that a bomb is nothing more than a big gun with a bigger boom? |
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KevinR
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Post by KevinR on Mar 16, 2010 21:14:54 GMT -5
Dan, Jesus is not a US citizen, and I am a born-again believer but I don't believe for a moment that the USA is God's chosen government with the role to make the rest of the world conform to God's standards.
That being said there is nothing wrong with singing songs like "God bless the USA." Any country should pray and seek God's blessings on them.
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noski
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Post by noski on Mar 17, 2010 13:14:21 GMT -5
K
No , I do not make the same argument against guns.
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KevinR
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Post by KevinR on Mar 17, 2010 13:50:06 GMT -5
K No , I do not make the same argument against guns. Just recently right here in Indy a man robbed a bank and with his gun he shot a teller who was pregnant with twins. Both babies died. So how could people be against bombs which destroy innocent lives and not also be against guns which destroy innocent lives? (I'm using your logic from above). And just to make something clear I'm making a point with this. I am absolutely all for the right to keep and bear arms, and I'm also for a country to have the right to defend itself. I view it as the same thing. Any weapon is only as dangerous as the person using it. The point is that guns aren't made with the sole purpose in mind to destroy innocent lives. And neither are bombs. Both are weapons, and I don't think you can divorce the two without arriving at faulty logic. |
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KevinR
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Post by KevinR on Mar 17, 2010 13:53:34 GMT -5
As to the title of this thread, my theological views are different from a lot of professing modern Christians. I don't believe that much of modern mainstream Christianity is in line with Biblical Christianity. I'd appreciate it if those who want to debate with me in regards to politics (hint Stephen) would not assume that I'm going to fall in line with what any particular denomination is teaching. Especially considering that I believe denominationalism to be a perversion of Christ's true intent for the church.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 17, 2010 14:05:35 GMT -5
As to the title of this thread, my theological views are different from a lot of professing modern Christians. I don't believe that much of modern mainstream Christianity is in line with Biblical Christianity. I'd appreciate it if those who want to debate with me in regards to politics (hint Stephen) would not assume that I'm going to fall in line with what any particular denomination is teaching. Especially considering that I believe denominationalism to be a perversion of Christ's true intent for the church. That's my pastor!  |
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Post by Stephen on Mar 17, 2010 16:02:30 GMT -5
the entire post was what you might call a "presumptive question". I did not ask a question. I did submit several thoughts for you to consider in light of the truths we agreed to previously. It appears that you have no interest in doing so. |
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Post by Stephen on Mar 17, 2010 16:06:41 GMT -5
I'd appreciate it if those who want to debate with me in regards to politics (hint Stephen) would not assume that I'm going to fall in line with what any particular denomination is teaching. Kevin, I hereby agree to refrain from assuming that you would align yourself with a particular denomination. Of course, no one here has a bloody clue how you got on denominations, but I am happy to do as you ask. Should I also refrain from assuming that you would have aligned yourself with any particular political view during the Revolutionary War? That is all I am suggesting, you know - that we actually examine our views in light of the revolutionaries before we automatically assume that we'd have been on their side. |
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KevinR
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Post by KevinR on Mar 17, 2010 18:29:24 GMT -5
I'd appreciate it if those who want to debate with me in regards to politics (hint Stephen) would not assume that I'm going to fall in line with what any particular denomination is teaching. Kevin, I hereby agree to refrain from assuming that you would align yourself with a particular denomination. Of course, no one here has a bloody clue how you got on denominations, but I am happy to do as you ask. Your whole thread is about what you call the views of "Modern Christians". Most modern Christians fall in line with what their denomination tells them on most any topic, whether it be God or salvation or baptism or the government. You are repeatedly setting up this argument saying we believe "All governments are established by God therefore who are you to question what they do". While this may have been what you were taught in Sunday School I have repeatedly said this is not a view that I hold, nor do I believe that the USA is God's chosen instrument to enforce righteousness. So instead of attacking those strawman positions, or even attacking your own former beliefs, why not deal with what we are actually saying.  |
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KevinR
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Post by KevinR on Mar 17, 2010 18:32:39 GMT -5
I'd appreciate it if those who want to debate with me in regards to politics (hint Stephen) would not assume that I'm going to fall in line with what any particular denomination is teaching. Should I also refrain from assuming that you would have aligned yourself with any particular political view during the Revolutionary War? That is all I am suggesting, you know - that we actually examine our views in light of the revolutionaries before we automatically assume that we'd have been on their side. Yes you should refrain because quite frankly it's rude and an assertion I take offense to. The British government committed horrible crimes against the people here in the colonies, and the revolutionaries had every right to stand against them. I would gladly have stood and fought for my freedom. To suggest otherwise is stupid, no matter what political differences you might have with me. |
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noski
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Post by noski on Mar 18, 2010 9:13:52 GMT -5
K
A gun is not a bomb. A gun is personal. A bomb is not.
My point is how can a person stand in front of an abortion clinic holding pictures of fetuses and not later in the day stand in front of a US federal building holding pictures of Arab children blown to bits by bombs payed for by your and my tax dollars? If ALL human life is sacred and a person chooses to complain about the loss of one form and ignore the loss of the other form, that person is a hypocrite in my opinion.
As far as guns, I'm all for 'em! Got three myself. Backed the easy CCW law in Michigan too. At the time of its debate, the naysayers said we'd have Tombstone like shoot outs in the streets if the law passed. Haven't seen one in 4 years since.
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