America's Independent Party

[KevinR]

I have researched this party quite a bit, and I like a lot of positions they hold. I am not pushing them, or blindly accepting anything they say. Just putting them out there for people who are interested to research.

[KevinR]

Here is a website with more info for those interested: aipnews.com/

[KevinR]

A statement from their website to which I give a heart "AMEN"!

"WELCOME TO THE NEW HOME OF CONSERVATISM!

Our purpose? The same as the stated purpose of the U.S. Constitution: “To secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”

That’s why we’re pro-life and pro-liberty, and will always unswervingly support a strong and secure America.

Along with the signers of the Declaration of Independence, we believe in the self-evident truth that all men are created equal, that our unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness come from our Creator, and that just government can only exist by the consent of the governed.

We call these “America’s Principles.”

We are recruiting, training and equipping a new generation of leaders – patriotic men and women who will courageously act to implement those principles.

History proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt: AMERICA’S PRINCIPLES WORK when the people put them into practice.

America’s Independent Party is committed to restoring government of, by and for the people – not just in words, but by DEDICATED, ORGANIZED, UNITED ACTION.

America’s Independent Party endorses candidates based on principle, not party affiliation. As principled Independents, we intend to change America’s political culture by example.

Like President Ronald Reagan, we firmly support a policy of Peace through Strength.

We support our troops and our veterans. We demand secure borders and a strict adherence to the rule of law when it comes to immigration policy.

We will always remember 9-11-2001, when America was attacked, the towers fell, and America’s heroes, average citizens, gave their lives to save others.

We are completely committed to free enterprise and economic liberty, and have a practical plan to restore economic prosperity, for the sake of our posterity.

Our nation’s political leaders have failed, because they have abandoned America’s Principles. A DEDICATED, ORGANIZED, UNITED conservative movement, made up of, and led by, average citizens, is the only hope that exists for saving America from the results of those failures.

If you believe as we do, please join with us today"

[KevinR]

Rick if you want to come up with a condescending nickname for this political party I promise I won't take it personally.

[Stephen]

The AIP would certainly be a major improvement over anything we have now.

They do have some issues, however. They claim to support the constitution yet voice support for a standing army and a federal law on marriage, both of which are clear violations of Article I Section 8 and the 9th and 10th Amendments. Further, they are attempting to take an institution of God (marriage) and make it subordinate to an institution of Satan (government). So they have some serious inherent contradictions in their views.

But I would enthusiastically support their candidate as a massive improvement over the status quo if no better choice was available. We could do a lot worse, that's for sure.

[KevinR]

Stephen what if your view that all government is an institution of Satan were wrong? What would that do to your views?

[KevinR]

Mar 12, 2010 17:29:26 GMT -5 Stephen said:

The AIP would certainly be a major improvement over anything we have now.


But I would enthusiastically support their candidate as a massive improvement over the status quo if no better choice was available. We could do a lot worse, that's for sure.

For the sake of just once in recent years saying we agreed on a political issue, I pulled out the middle part of your response.

We agree on this part of your statement, and I find that more interesting right now than debating the middle part.

[Stephen]

It would make them MUCH easier to accept.

It would be so easy to go along with everyone else, with everything the preacher says at my church, and with everything currently believed by the mainstream of society. I could relax and not worry about being ridiculed for my beliefs. I could join in on making fun of people who read LewRockwell or give thoughtful consideration to alternative theories of historical events.

I could just ignore or explain away 100 million innocent humans butchered by governments in the 20th century alone as just being "collateral damage," or "God's will," or some other reason. I don't say that sarcastically... I'm serious. It would be a breathe of fresh air. I could just forget it all.

It would be far easier to go back to the peace of mind I had when I thought that the US government was God's authority on earth and that whatever the USA did was right.

I once held all those views. I was raised with them. I was taught them in Sunday School. But scripture orders me to seek truth at all costs and to continually test my own faith.

Do you honestly think I enjoy being made fun of and ridiculed? Do you really think I enjoy not being able to find a church where we fit in? Being the only one who can't talk politics to anyone, whether Republican or Democrat?

Truth has turned out to be very uncomfortable and inconvenient. I do not like it. I would love to be wrong. That's why I am more than willing to re-examine my beliefs, and the more, the better.

[Stephen]

If you are wrong, and government has indeed been given to Satan, with all its power and splendor, to do with as he pleases, what would it do to your beliefs?

[KevinR]

Mar 12, 2010 17:42:39 GMT -5 Stephen said:

If you are wrong, and government has indeed been given to Satan, with all its power and splendor, to do with as he pleases, what would it do to your beliefs?

I would have to literally discount tons of Scriptural evidence to the contrary. That God established government in the generic sense to punish the wicked and protect the innocent. That God commanded and never repudiated the command that murderers should be put to death. On and on the evidence goes throughout the Scriptures. Even Jesus and the Apostle Paul both affirmed the death penalty and the government as an authority to punish evil and protect the innocent.

Yes Satan said that to the Lord Jesus. I wouldn't dispute what he said. He does have sway and control over this world system. He is called "The god of this world" in Scripture for a reason. He is constantly working to draw people AWAY from a relationship with Jesus Christ. He uses government to that effect and would use anything else.

I don't believe Satan has an unlimited leash. There are limits to what God allows him to do. If Satan had his way we would all just nuke each other and send billions to hell instantly. He doesn't care about mankind, and is the ultimate liar and manipulator.

I believe the Scriptures teach that God established government in a generic sense. Human beings have corrupted it just like we've corrupted so many other things. God created the plants used to make dangerous narcotics that destroy lives. We corrupted them.

We don't have to accept or agree with everything that ANY government does. Not even our own. And good people can stand up against what is wrong, and can make a change if enough of them do so.

It is right to remove evil dictators from power even if the government doing it is not perfect. On and on we could go.

[KevinR]

Mar 12, 2010 17:41:15 GMT -5 Stephen said:

It would be far easier to go back to the peace of mind I had when I thought that the US government was God's authority on earth and that whatever the USA did was right.

What if that view was also wrong? I certainly don't believe the US government is God's authority on earth or that everything we do is right.....

Mar 12, 2010 17:41:15 GMT -5 Stephen said:

I once held all those views. I was raised with them. I was taught them in Sunday School. But scripture orders me to seek truth at all costs and to continually test my own faith.

I believe some of the things taught to you in Sunday School were also just as wrong.....

Mar 12, 2010 17:41:15 GMT -5 Stephen said:

Do you honestly think I enjoy being made fun of and ridiculed? Do you really think I enjoy not being able to find a church where we fit in? Being the only one who can't talk politics to anyone, whether Republican or Democrat?

Hey I completely understand. I don't agree with quite a bit of positions held by Dems, Repubs, OR Libertarians. I am certainly not the most popular guy to discuss politics with. I refuse to support any candidate who will compromise on "Do not murder". That eliminates so many of them! Like Sarah Palin, John Mccain, etc...

Mar 12, 2010 17:41:15 GMT -5 Stephen said:

Truth has turned out to be very uncomfortable and inconvenient. I do not like it. I would love to be wrong. That's why I am more than willing to re-examine my beliefs, and the more, the better.

I applaud you for seeking truth as it relates to your political views. I do not believe that you've found it yet.....

[Michael]

Hallelujah!!

Tis looks as if we might be getting somewhere on this hopeless debate!

[Stephen]

Mar 12, 2010 17:55:28 GMT -5 KevinR said:

God established government

That statement is at best highly questionable, but let's assume it to be correct for the moment.

By what right does one man rule another?

Yes Satan said that to the Lord Jesus. I wouldn't dispute what he said. He does have sway and control over this world system.

Satan showed Jesus the governments of the world and said to him,

"I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. So if you worship me, it will all be yours." (emphasis added)

Satan does not "sway" governments. He does not attempt to possibly, perhaps, maybe influence them.

He owns them. They are his and his alone. They have been given to him by God Almighty and his absolute authority over them is unquestioned.

If Satan had his way we would all just nuke each other and send billions to hell instantly.

That is an assumption. The Bible teaches otherwise; that Satan does not want to kill everyone, but rather intends to use mankind rather than annihilate them.

Satan's plan is quite clear. Earth was created in a state of liberty and freedom. In the end times, that freedom will be totally crushed by government. The Bible illustrates this repeatedly with prophecies that we both agree on:

- God created earth without government. When Satan's control over earth is complete, a one-world government will blanket the planet.

- The world was government-free at creation. At the second coming, every square inch of earth will be controlled by government to such an extent that you cannot buy or sell without government permission.

- Earth was created in liberty. It will end in slavery to government.

Satan has no intention whatsoever of killing every human being. On the contrary, Satan is doing precisely what God is doing right at this very moment - building his kingdom. One nation at a time. One soldier at a time. One government agency at a time.

Satan's tools are not nuclear bombs. It is deception. He will use a powerful illusion "so that even the elect are deceived."

I believe the Scriptures teach that God established government in a generic sense. Human beings have corrupted it just like we've corrupted so many other things.

How can the corruption of government be blamed on humans when Satan himself claims personal ownership of them?

[Stephen]

I believe there is another possible way to discuss this that relies more on personal honestly and less on debatable scriptural interpretations. Perhaps you will agree -

Let's just assume the new "God established government" theory to be totally correct. We will not question it at all. We will even accept the alleged "good" purposes of government - to protect the innocent, punish evil, yadda yadda.

Accepting all of this places the "God established government" crowd in a position where they must now either demonstrate that government is reliable to accomplish these things in a righteous and Godly manner, or accept that government has become a monster that no longer resembles anything that a loving God would establish and is now given over to Satan.

I and several hundred million dead people believe this is a losing argument for the "God established government" crowd. In fact, it's a slam-dunk argument. And I believe you would agree.

So whether God actually established government or not is, by any rational barometer, no longer relevant. Satan is now the undisputed head of government - even according to Jesus Christ himself - and government has grown into a monster no longer remotely related to anything a loving God would have anything to do with.

[Stephen]

Mar 13, 2010 11:47:39 GMT -5 Michael said:

Hallelujah!!

Tis looks as if we might be getting somewhere on this hopeless debate!

Debate is not hopeless.

We will get somewhere when we abide by standard debate rules, refrain from name calling, directly address the main points, stay on topic and respond directly to each other's statements.

Debate it not hopeless.