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Post by Stephen on Mar 17, 2010 16:34:52 GMT -5
government in and of itself is not evil, The people who run it are. Once you remove all people from a government, does a government still remain? |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 17, 2010 18:41:48 GMT -5
Simply because a thing belongs to Satan, is under Satan's control and answers directly to Satan as its authority, it is not necessarily evil? I guess we'll agree to disagree. You give Satan much more credit for righteousness than I do. Applying your own logic here, would you then support the immediate formation of a one-world government? If it was under Christ I'd be all for it. Amen and thank God that it's coming! |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 17, 2010 18:43:37 GMT -5
government in and of itself is not evil Simply because a thing belongs to Satan, is under Satan's control and answers directly to Satan as its authority, it is not necessarily evil? I guess we'll agree to disagree. You give Satan much more credit for righteousness than I do. Applying your own logic here, would you then support the immediate formation of a one-world government? Your entire view is based on one statement from Satan. While I don't dispute Satan made the statement I dispute your interpretation of it, because there are tons of other verses that destroy your position. But you ignore those and hold to this view you have. Why? For someone saying get rid of your preconceived notions, you should do the same my dear friend. |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 17, 2010 18:44:46 GMT -5
"I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to."
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a Son is given,
and the government will be on His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over His kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.This is not quoted out of context, it means exactly what it says. Therefore, government in and of itself is not evil, The people who run it are. To say that all government is evil is hypocrisy. Not only will Christ rule a government, he will rule a never ending global government, in the form of an monarchy, over the entire world. Michael I want to say this was an excellent and insightful post, and one that has been completely ignored. Good job! |
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 17, 2010 20:15:23 GMT -5
Isaiah 9:6-7
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a Son is given,
and the government will be on His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over His kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.This is not quoted out of context, it means exactly what it says. Therefore, government in and of itself is not evil, The people who run it are. To say that all government is evil is hypocrisy. Not only will Christ rule a government, he will rule a never ending global government, in the form of an monarchy, over the entire world. Michael I want to say this was an excellent and insightful post, and one that has been completely ignored. Good job! Thanks again.  |
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noski
Captain
"Richthofen lived where the rest of us go , only in our greatest moments." Udet
Posts: 286
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Post by noski on Mar 18, 2010 8:53:11 GMT -5
Just wondering about the rules. Since Michael quoted the Jewish Torah (Isaiah)to prove his point , can I use quotes from Buddha or the I Ching?
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Mar 18, 2010 10:48:42 GMT -5
Just wondering about the rules. Since Michael quoted the Jewish Torah (Isaiah)to prove his point , can I use quotes from Buddha or the I Ching? Because the debate centers around government through a Christian worldview. I suppose if you want to incorporate buddha or i ching then we cant stop you, but it's totally off topic since your the only non christian on the thread. |
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noski
Captain
"Richthofen lived where the rest of us go , only in our greatest moments." Udet
Posts: 286
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Post by noski on Mar 18, 2010 15:29:02 GMT -5
Quoting the Jewish Torah is Christian?
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Post by Stephen on Mar 18, 2010 16:14:44 GMT -5
If it was under Christ I'd be all for it. That wasn't my question. Your position appeared to be that since "government" was the English word chosen by the translators to represent the original Hebrew while describing a prophesy concerning Christ, that therefore, government was innately righteous and acceptable at a global level. My question remains. Would you then support the immediate formation of a one-world government? |
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Post by Stephen on Mar 18, 2010 16:20:42 GMT -5
Your entire view is based on one statement from Satan. How many times must scripture make a statement before it is valid? When scripture appears to be paradoxical, you must invalidate the interpretation of one scripture in order to validate the other. You interpret one set of verses differently in order to accommodate the interpretation of the other. You are doing this right now with Luke 4. Of course, we all do the same thing in our scriptural studies. Every student of The Bible does. You accept this and do not consider your conclusions even remotely biased. Yet when I do it, you claim that I am prejudicial. |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 18, 2010 17:30:10 GMT -5
Quoting the Jewish Torah is Christian? Christians accept the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Scriptures as part of the Word of God. Christianity at its base was an offshoot of Judaism. (Whether you accept or reject the claims of Christ and the New Testament, this is true). All of the writers of the New Testament knew, understood, and believed the Jewish Scriptures to be part of God's Word. |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 18, 2010 17:34:41 GMT -5
Your entire view is based on one statement from Satan. How many times must scripture make a statement before it is valid? All Scripture is valid. This is an erroneous statement. You missed the point entirely. You repeatedly post one verse and base your whole view of ALL government being evil on that one verse. I disagree with your interpretation of that one verse because there are mounds of other verses that are very clear in regards to government. Do you deny that Christ will head a government that will rule the earth for 1,000 years during the Millennial Kingdom? |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 18, 2010 17:40:14 GMT -5
Your entire view is based on one statement from Satan. When scripture appears to be paradoxical, you must invalidate the interpretation of one scripture in order to validate the other. You interpret one set of verses differently in order to accommodate the interpretation of the other. You are doing this right now with Luke 4. Of course, we all do the same thing in our scriptural studies. Every student of The Bible does. You accept this and do not consider your conclusions even remotely biased. Yet when I do it, you claim that I am prejudicial. You're half right. You interpret Scripture in light of the immediate context, the context of the Bible as a whole, etc... When a statement is made you examine who it was being said to, what was the reason it was being said, and who was the person speaking. This becomes very important when viewing what skeptics call "Contradictions" because God deals with different people differently over the thousands of years of human history. This is why He will give one people a set of commands and another people a different set of commands. And you do interpret Scripture with Scripture. When you see a statement you examine in light of what the rest of the Word of God says. You don't pick and choose the verses you like or that fit your worldview and completely ignore the rest of them. So your accusation would be valid if I were saying Satan didn't say that. But I don't deny its there, I just deny your interpretation of it. |
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 18, 2010 17:43:00 GMT -5
How many times must scripture make a statement before it is valid? I disagree with your interpretation of that one verse because there are mounds of other verses that are very clear in regards to government. Such as these two: Isaiah 9:6-7 6 For to us a child is born,
to us a Son is given,
and the government will be on His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over His kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this. |
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Post by Stephen on Mar 19, 2010 10:19:25 GMT -5
How many times must scripture make a statement before it is valid? All Scripture is valid. This is an erroneous statement. It was not a statement. It was a question. I will repeat it. How many times must scripture make a statement before it is valid? Please answer. |
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