phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Mar 21, 2010 13:57:22 GMT -5
I am still trying to think of anything evil Canada had done lately. Or Sweden. Or Norway. Or Iceland. No joke. You mean to tell me you haven't heard of Norway's War On Terror? ... that was a joke
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Mar 21, 2010 14:31:23 GMT -5
I am still trying to think of anything evil Canada had done lately. Or Sweden. Or Norway. Or Iceland. No joke. Dude. Iceland has WMD's.... ... that was a joke too
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Post by Stephen on Mar 21, 2010 17:57:03 GMT -5
Switzerland? (J/K ) Okay. That was funny. But once again, we digress. Christ is not here. Christ is not running the government. The present is not the future. Let's stay on topic. So we agree again. Human government is inherently evil. Not only does scripture make it clear that it is under the direct control of Satan, but mankind's inherent evil has also corrupted it completely.
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Post by Stephen on Mar 21, 2010 18:04:05 GMT -5
I am still trying to think of anything evil Canada had done lately. Or Sweden. Or Norway. Or Iceland. No joke. They steal from their citizens. Stealing is the act of taking that which belongs to another. Calling it by another name does not alter the fundamental truth of the act itself. Every alleged "good" act by government (building roads, schools, etc) is only made possible after money is stolen from the citizenry under threat of government violence. Without a complete system of theft in place, backed up by an army of gunmen and a cage system with which to imprison those who attempt to keep the rewards of their own labor, government can do nothing. It can take not a single act of any type that is not based on theft.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 21, 2010 20:42:44 GMT -5
Switzerland? (J/K ) Okay. That was funny. Ya, thought it might be. ;D So we agree again. Human government is inherently evil. Not only does scripture make it clear that it is under the direct control of Satan, but mankind's inherent evil has also corrupted it completely. Human government is inherently evil because humans are inherently evil (until they truly surrender themselves to Christ). But that doesn't mean that government, at it's core ideals and principles, is inherently evil. So that means we agree, I think?
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noski
Captain
"Richthofen lived where the rest of us go , only in our greatest moments." Udet
Posts: 286
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Post by noski on Mar 22, 2010 9:27:46 GMT -5
I doubt the people who live in those countries would agree with you. Living the kind of free life you suggest is difficult, so people trade some freedoms for some comforts like roads and bridges. Gerry Spence has a view on freedom that goes into it further. But i don't have it with me.
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Post by Stephen on Mar 22, 2010 9:55:01 GMT -5
Human government is inherently evil because humans are inherently evil (until they truly surrender themselves to Christ). But that doesn't mean that government, at it's core ideals and principles, is inherently evil. So that means we agree, I think? Possibly! Let's find out by asking the trump question that our entire conversation has been leading toward... By what right does one man rule another? This is not a trick question. I am genuinely asking your viewpoint in an effort to see if we agree as you suggest.
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Post by Stephen on Mar 22, 2010 9:57:21 GMT -5
I doubt the people who live in those countries would agree with you. Living the kind of free life you suggest is difficult, so people trade some freedoms for some comforts like roads and bridges. Gerry Spence has a view on freedom that goes into it further. But i don't have it with me. The idea that freedom must be sacrificed in order to have roads and bridges is faulty. The two are not mutually exclusive and they can co-exist.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 22, 2010 14:36:22 GMT -5
Human government is inherently evil because humans are inherently evil (until they truly surrender themselves to Christ). But that doesn't mean that government, at it's core ideals and principles, is inherently evil. So that means we agree, I think? Possibly! Let's find out by asking the trump question that our entire conversation has been leading toward... By what right does one man rule another? This is not a trick question. I am genuinely asking your viewpoint in an effort to see if we agree as you suggest. It seems like you are referring to a monarchy. So the answer to your question is "no". But then, that's why we came up with democracy. And take your own profile text: FEW MEN DESIRE LIBERTY. MOST WISH ONLY FOR A JUST MASTER. - Sallust. Some men just want to be told what to do.
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Post by Stephen on Mar 22, 2010 15:04:20 GMT -5
It seems like you are referring to a monarchy. So the answer to your question is "no". I don't understand your answer. Let me ask again: By what right does one man rule another?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 22, 2010 17:19:02 GMT -5
It seems like you are referring to a monarchy. So the answer to your question is "no". I don't understand your answer. Let me ask again: By what right does one man rule another? It depends on what you mean. If the authority is established by God, like the family or an God ordained government, then the answer is "yes". If you are referring to slavery and forced servitude then the answer is "no". Maybe if you define the system, by which one man rules another, then I can answer your question with more clarity.
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Post by Stephen on Mar 23, 2010 10:01:38 GMT -5
It depends on what you mean. If the authority is established by God, like the family or an God ordained government, then the answer is "yes". If you are referring to slavery and forced servitude then the answer is "no".. Take a look at the answer you are offering: "By what right does one man rule another?"
"Yes." This is not a "yes or no" question. I am asking your thoughts on the matter. I am asking you, in your opinion, what gives one man the right to rule over another? That is, grammatically, a poorer way to express the question but perhaps it will help. So please allow me to ask again... By what right does one man rule another?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 23, 2010 16:18:15 GMT -5
It depends on what you mean. If the authority is established by God, like the family or an God ordained government, then the answer is "yes". If you are referring to slavery and forced servitude then the answer is "no".. Take a look at the answer you are offering: "By what right does one man rule another?"
"Yes." This is not a "yes or no" question. I am asking your thoughts on the matter. I am asking you, in your opinion, what gives one man the right to rule over another? That is, grammatically, a poorer way to express the question but perhaps it will help. So please allow me to ask again... By what right does one man rule another? Your question assumes that one man can rule over another and your question is "why". I don't believe one man has a right to rule over another. Unless the authority has been put there by God. (Like a family) Or if the man or men want the ruler. (Israelites wanting a king and God providing one) So in the words of your debate rules, "I disagree with the premise of the question". No man has the right to rule another. ;D
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noski
Captain
"Richthofen lived where the rest of us go , only in our greatest moments." Udet
Posts: 286
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Post by noski on Mar 23, 2010 20:22:23 GMT -5
From the book: From Freedom to Slavery by Gerry Spence
Pg13 We are not free.Nor have we ever been. Perfect freedom demands a perfectvision of reality,one too painfulfor the healthy to endure.It requires that we be alive, alert, and exquisitelyaware of our raw being.Faced with pain of freedom man begs for his shackles.Afraid of death,he seeks ...religion. Afraid of loneliness, he imprisons himself with relationships. Afraid of want, he accepts the bondage of employment. Afraid of rejection, he conforms to the commandsof society. If our knowledge of freedom were perfect we would not choose it. Pure freedom is pure terror. PG15 For nearly two hundred years slavery thrived in America over the silent protestations of decent citizens enslaved themselves by the tyranny of convention. The price of freedom is often rejection, even banishment.
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Post by Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 16:31:21 GMT -5
Your question assumes that one man can rule over another and your question is "why". I don't believe one man has a right to rule over another. Unless the authority has been put there by God. (Like a family) Or if the man or men want the ruler. (Israelites wanting a king and God providing one) You claim that no man has the right to rule another, then you name two instances in which you believe that a man has the right to rule another. Allow me to interpret your answer and please tell me if this is correct: "By what right does one man rule another?" "By divine appointment or by consent." Is that complete and accurate?
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