noski
Captain
"Richthofen lived where the rest of us go , only in our greatest moments." Udet
Posts: 286
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Post by noski on Mar 19, 2010 13:16:03 GMT -5
K, I didn't ask you about King James. The original Hebrew says, "You shall not kill". No problem with the translation. So....Ill ltake this to Dan's Stuff.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 19, 2010 13:17:19 GMT -5
K, I didn't ask you about King James. The original Hebrew says, "You shall not kill". No problem with the translation. So....Ill ltake this to Dan's Stuff. Dan, the original Hebrew could not possibly say "you shall not kill". Those are not Hebrew words.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 19, 2010 13:22:47 GMT -5
בְרֵעֲךָ עֵד שָׁקֶר. {ס}יב לֹא תִרְצָח, {ס} לֹא תִנְאָף; {ס} לֹא תִגְנֹב, {ס} לֹא-תַעֲנֶה
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 19, 2010 13:24:20 GMT -5
בְרֵעֲךָ עֵד שָׁקֶר. {ס}יב לֹא תִרְצָח, {ס} לֹא תִנְאָף; {ס} לֹא תִגְנֹב, {ס} לֹא-תַעֲנֶה Literally translated: 12 You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour. from Ex. 20:12
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Michael
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Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 19, 2010 13:33:52 GMT -5
Neither of those statements are true Please name an extant government that you consider Godly, righteous, uncorrupted and representative of God on earth. There aren't any. But that doesn't mean that none were established by God. Like I said get the book I'm reading, I couldn't put it down for hours.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 19, 2010 13:35:54 GMT -5
Please name an extant government that you consider Godly, righteous, uncorrupted and representative of God on earth. There aren't any. But that doesn't mean that none were established by God. Like I said get the book I'm reading, I couldn't put it down for hours. Must be government propaganda ;D
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 19, 2010 13:43:13 GMT -5
There aren't any. But that doesn't mean that none were established by God. Like I said get the book I'm reading, I couldn't put it down for hours. Must be government propaganda ;D Not at all, it was written by two, born again, Christians. I belive Wayne has it for writing. The Light and the Glory
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 19, 2010 13:48:38 GMT -5
Must be government propaganda ;D Not at all, it was written by two, born again, Christians. I belive Wayne has it for writing. The Light and the GloryI know I was kidding. Yes Wayne has it.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 19, 2010 13:50:12 GMT -5
Not at all, it was written by two, born again, Christians. I belive Wayne has it for writing. The Light and the GloryI know I was kidding. Yes Wayne has it. You should read it. It's great!
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Post by Stephen on Mar 20, 2010 19:02:26 GMT -5
Please name an extant government that you consider Godly, righteous, uncorrupted and representative of God on earth. There aren't any. But that doesn't mean that none were established by God. Fair enough. We now agree on two major points: First, even if we were to accept that God had established a government at some point in ancient times, we both accept that none of the governments extant today remotely resemble their original form, intent or function and all are wicked and corrupt. Secondly, Luke 4 states that at some point in time, all the authority and splendor of all governments was given to Satan in such depth and completion that they are now his and he can give them to whomever he wants. It seems reasonable, then, to accept that whether God established governments or not is now an irrelevant debate because at some point in time, control over government was given to Satan, and the behavior and morality of government today clearly reflects that change. Perhaps you will consider this, perhaps you will not. However, it is not the ranting of a government-hating, Osama-loving, Lew Rockwell brainwashed lunatic as has been claimed. The suggested conclusion is plausible and supportable, and is built upon a foundation of facts on which you and I both agree.
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Michael
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Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 20, 2010 19:53:05 GMT -5
Secondly, Luke 4 states that at some point in time, all the authority and splendor of all governments was given to Satan in such depth and completion that they are now his and he can give them to whomever he wants. That still doesn't mean that all government is evil. And it still doesn't mean that the devil has unprecedented control over all government. He is allowed to waiver the hearts of humankind, to an extent, no demon and neither satan can take away our free will.
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Post by Stephen on Mar 20, 2010 22:20:58 GMT -5
You said earlier that there is not one single righteous government on earth.
Yet you claim that all government is not evil.
If there is not one single government on the face of the planet that is uncorrupted, how is it that all government is not evil? If there is a righteous one, please, by all means, point it out!
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Post by Stephen on Mar 20, 2010 22:27:26 GMT -5
it still doesn't mean that the devil has unprecedented control over all government. He is allowed to waiver the hearts of humankind, to an extent, no demon and neither satan can take away our free will. We are not talking about human hearts. We are not talking about free will. We are talking about present-day human governments. Let's stay on topic. You can't exactly bluff the omniscient Son of God, you know. If Satan didn't really have full control over the governments of the world - if he couldn't really give them, totally, to anyone he wanted - how could he have offered them to Christ?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 20, 2010 22:30:05 GMT -5
You said earlier that there is not one single righteous government on earth. Yet you claim that all government is not evil. If there is not one single government on the face of the planet that is uncorrupted, how is it that all government is not evil? If there is a righteous one, please, by all means, point it out! Switzerland? (J/K ) The system of government is not evil, if Christ ran the government (like He will one day) it would not be evil. So the answer to your loaded question is the fact is that sinful man run the government and so of course there isn't going to be a righteous uncorrupted government.
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noski
Captain
"Richthofen lived where the rest of us go , only in our greatest moments." Udet
Posts: 286
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Post by noski on Mar 21, 2010 13:36:01 GMT -5
I am still trying to think of anything evil Canada had done lately. Or Sweden. Or Norway. Or Iceland. No joke.
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