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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 13:36:07 GMT -5
If I was bin laden I would have realized that I'm going to die either way, so I would avoid any more senseless deaths, stop being a coward, and turn myself in. If I really was bin laden though I wouldn't have angered the greatest superpower on earth to begin with. America is not unreasonable, but we don't allow things to go unpunished. I understand your view. Are you then retracting your previous suggestion that Bin Laden should seek diplomatic negotiations with the USA, and adopting the position that even if he did, the USA should refuse?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 13:36:39 GMT -5
If you want to know what I wrote, you can seek truth and find it yourself in a matter of seconds by reviewing this thread. If you do not want the truth, no amount of "proof" will change your mind. So you admit you have none then?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 13:39:26 GMT -5
If I was bin laden I would have realized that I'm going to die either way, so I would avoid any more senseless deaths, stop being a coward, and turn myself in. If I really was bin laden though I wouldn't have angered the greatest superpower on earth to begin with. America is not unreasonable, but we don't allow things to go unpunished. I understand your view. Are you then retracting your previous suggestion that Bin Laden should seek diplomatic negotiations with the USA, and adopting the position that even if he did, the USA should refuse? He can negotiate with us, like I said I got no problem talking to the man about unconditional surrender. We can't let him off the hook.
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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 13:49:13 GMT -5
In your eyes why is the "evil" Switzerland government any better than the "evil" American government? Because there is less of it. That question presumes a position I have not taken. I have not "supposed" that the government won't let me leave. Perhaps they would allow me to leave, perhaps they would not. My statement merely observed the fact that as of February 2007, Americans are no longer free to leave their own country. American intelligence agencies now review all manifests to spy on the background of each traveler, and each individual only leaves the country after being cleared and receiving permission from those agencies. If I stand accused of trying my best to make a living for my family through intelligent business decisions, I plead guilty and concede to any amount of scorn and disrespect you would like to continue inflicting. The Swiss immigration system requires that persons moving to Switzerland stay there for 5 years without their family prior to receiving citizenship status, after which family may join on a residency-only basis for another 5 years. I do not want to leave my wife and children for five years. The alternative is to purchase individual passports at $50,000 US dollars per person in exchange for instant residency, work permits, and a 3 year wait for citizenship status. I do not have $300,000. No, it is not "financially possible" for me, and yes, I was telling the truth, and yes, I know what whereof I speak and I have spent considerable time researching it. I recommend you do the same before pursuing this topic.
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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 13:57:54 GMT -5
you still have failed to give me an answer as to how you determine "truth" I do not determine truth. Truth determines itself independent of my personal biases or beliefs. I seek truth by seeking reality, facts, and what has actually occurred in history. That is how I seek and attempt to determine truth. I have made this plain many times and I do so again now. Will you still accuse me of failing to answer your question? If so, re-state it in other terms and I will be glad to try again. "Michael, do you prefer to get high on marijuana or heroine?" This question presumes that you like to get high. It is a presumptive question that contains in implicit accusation against you. It is a poor way to debate and a rather cheap way to accuse your counterpart. I again recommend that you abandon presumptive questions. I have never said that "my" truth was "better than all others." In fact, I have consistently stated that there is no such thing as "my" truth or "your" truth. There is only THE truth, and we are commanded by scripture to seek it. Will you now again start accusing me of claiming "my truth is better than all others," or will you stop?
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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 14:01:08 GMT -5
He has decided that his perception will not be changed just as much as the both of us. I have repeatedly stated that I am willing to re-examine everything I believe. I have repeatedly offered to do so and consider any hard, factual, historical research on any of the questions posed on this thread. This leaves us with only two possible conclusions: 1) Your accusation above is incorrect. 2) I am lying to you. Which do you believe it is, Michael?
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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 14:04:16 GMT -5
If you want to know what I wrote, you can seek truth and find it yourself in a matter of seconds by reviewing this thread. If you do not want the truth, no amount of "proof" will change your mind. So you admit you have none then? This is another presumptive question. It is little more than an thinly disguised accusation that does not seek an answer (which is readily available if you would re-read this thread) but intends only to condemn the person at which you aim it. Please do not accuse others with presumptive questions. It is a poor debate tactic that accomplishes nothing and merely shows disrespect and an inability to speak directly to the topic.
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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 14:06:08 GMT -5
I got no problem talking to the man about unconditional surrender. Do you consider a demand for unconditional surrender to be an example of "diplomatic negotiation?" If not, I must ask you again - You previously said that if you were Bin Laden, you would recommend diplomatic negotiations because the USA is not unreasonable. Have you now changed your position?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 14:41:15 GMT -5
He has decided that his perception will not be changed just as much as the both of us. I have repeatedly stated that I am willing to re-examine everything I believe. I have repeatedly offered to do so and consider any hard, factual, historical research on any of the questions posed on this thread. This leaves us with only two possible conclusions: 1) Your accusation above is incorrect. 2) I am lying to you. Which do you believe it is, Michael? I choose the third option. Which is that you are subconsciously influenced by the worldview you currently have that even if you tried to, you would not be able to reject it completely because you are human and therefore cannot detach yourself from the very thing that you use to anchor yourself to reality. Which is why, even if you showed Hitler or any other person what would happen if they made an evil choice, you would not be able to persuade them from there reality. To detach oneself from reality is to give up all sanity. If I gave up reality right now I would start asking questions like: I'm I really looking at the computer screen? I'm I really typing right now? What is a computer? What is typing? Why do I ask questions? Etcetera.What is hardwired into the brain is hardwired into the brain. The only one who can change that is Christ.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 14:42:42 GMT -5
So you admit you have none then? This is another presumptive question. It is little more than an thinly disguised accusation that does not seek an answer (which is readily available if you would re-read this thread) but intends only to condemn the person at which you aim it. Please do not accuse others with presumptive questions. It is a poor debate tactic that accomplishes nothing and merely shows disrespect and an inability to speak directly to the topic. So you don't have any. Good that clears that up.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 14:44:20 GMT -5
I got no problem talking to the man about unconditional surrender. Do you consider a demand for unconditional surrender to be an example of "diplomatic negotiation?" If not, I must ask you again - You previously said that if you were Bin Laden, you would recommend diplomatic negotiations because the USA is not unreasonable. He had his chance to do so before 9/11. He's already pulled the trigger.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 14:48:21 GMT -5
you still have failed to give me an answer as to how you determine "truth" I do not determine truth. Truth determines itself independent of my personal biases or beliefs. I seek truth by seeking reality, facts, and what has actually occurred in history. That is how I seek and attempt to determine truth. I have made this plain many times and I do so again now. Will you still accuse me of failing to answer your question? If so, re-state it in other terms and I will be glad to try again. Ok then. What do you base your truth on? (this will eventually lead back to my first question)
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 27, 2010 15:00:15 GMT -5
He had his chance to do so before 9/11. He's already pulled the trigger. We attacked Osama first and you know it. You're in direct violation of Luke 6 and you know that as well. stop lying to yourself. he never would've attacked us if we hadn't attacked him.
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 27, 2010 15:01:13 GMT -5
So you don't have any. Good that clears that up. Neither do you. You have ideas based on words in a book. That is all.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 15:06:46 GMT -5
In your eyes why is the "evil" Switzerland government any better than the "evil" American government? Because there is less of it. Oh really? Do you say that just because they rolled over to Hitler in World War II? Oh, and be warned about their restrictions on freedom. It is considered an offense to mow your lawn on a Sunday, because it causes too much noise.
It is illegal to flush the toilet after 10 P.Awww.dumblaws.com/laws/switzerlandSo, you think we go problems with freedom?
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