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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 9:54:11 GMT -5
There is a difference of opinions on the necessity and means used on every instance you mentioned. And you can find good people on both sides of the fence. Who are you to say that the attacks on Japan weren't necessary to finally put an end to WWII? First of all, no, you most certainly did not address a single incident that I offered except the Indian wars. Not one. The notion that you somehow addressed each of them in a manner that repudiated the claim that innocent civilians were attacked is patently false. If I am wrong, please accept my apologies and direct me to the post where you demonstrate with historical evidence that no civilian casualties took place at Dresden, Tokyo, Hiromshima, and all the other specific instances mentioned. Secondly... now you are no longer claiming that the US does not deliberately attack civilians... now you are merely offering justifications for it by claiming that "there is a difference of opinions on the necessity and means," that "who is to say what was necessary to end the war?" Go back to your original claim. It is either true or it is false. Which is it? And if it is false, will you allow this new information to alter your present views? My guess is that your hatred of God Almighty is what drove you to Satan worship. As you can see, presumptive statements do not benefit the discussion. I recommend we stick with directly answering each other's questions in a search for truth.
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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 9:58:41 GMT -5
Thanks for giving this a good hearing. Your statement contains the implicit assumption that since I do not now agree with you, I could not possibly have give your statement a fair reading.
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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 10:03:03 GMT -5
I mean this in all sincerity: If this country is so bad why live here. I would move to Switzerland if it were financially possible and if the US government would permit my family to leave the country. I have thoroughly researched it. I do not have the freedom to speak out about my views. I have permission to speak out about my views. Every word on this forum and on the entire web is under surveillance by government spy agencies. If you get out of line, as the author of "Assntn Politics" did, you will find in a big hurry that you do not have the "freedom" to speak out online. You are on a leash, and when you reach the end of that leash, it will be yanked very hard by your masters. Never confuse freedom with permission.
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Post by Stephen on Feb 27, 2010 10:11:09 GMT -5
And you openly admit that you have no evidence that bin laden ever tried to solve the problem with diplomacy. I said just the opposite. Please directly answer the issue I raised. I'll repeat it... You just said that you wanted them to initiate negotiations, but now you say that you won't discuss anything other than unconditional surrender. You said that the USA was not unreasonable, but now you want to dictate all the terms of negotiation and kill anyone who resists. Are you retracting your previous suggestion that if you were Bin Laden, you would seek diplomatic negotiations in the faith that America is not unreasonable? So you admit fallibility, yet refuse to reconsider your views. How do you reconcile that position?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 11:09:45 GMT -5
Every word on this forum and on the entire web is under surveillance by government spy agencies. If you get out of line, as the author of "Assntn Politics" did, you will find in a big hurry that you do not have the "freedom" to speak out online. You are on a leash, and when you reach the end of that leash, it will be yanked very hard by your masters. Never confuse freedom with permission. Sorry to burst your bubble but, I have read posts by a law enforcement officer on another forum and he spelled it out plainly that there are no government spies patrolling any web forum because, besides the obvious reason of being too time consuming, each forum is under the direct jurisdiction of the administrator of said web site. Now some sites are watched not because it is a republican or Conservative forum, but because nefarious individuals use the site as a "safe" point for their threats or other things of the like. So since there are no nefarious individuals on this site. We all are under your jurisdiction, Stephen. This is your government.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 11:16:06 GMT -5
And you openly admit that you have no evidence that bin laden ever tried to solve the problem with diplomacy before 9/11. I said just the opposite. Then prove it.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 12:00:01 GMT -5
Please directly answer the issue I raised. I'll repeat it... You just said that you wanted them to initiate negotiations, but now you say that you won't discuss anything other than unconditional surrender. You said that the USA was not unreasonable, but now you want to dictate all the terms of negotiation and kill anyone who resists. Are you retracting your previous suggestion that if you were Bin Laden, you would seek diplomatic negotiations in the faith that America is not unreasonable? If I was bin laden I would have realized that I'm going to die either way, so I would avoid any more senseless deaths, stop being a coward, and turn myself in. If I really was bin laden though I wouldn't have angered the greatest superpower on earth to begin with. America is not unreasonable, but we don't allow things to go unpunished.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 12:07:46 GMT -5
I mean this in all sincerity: If this country is so bad why live here. I would move to Switzerland if it were financially possible and if the US government would permit my family to leave the country. I have thoroughly researched it. In your eyes why is the "evil" Switzerland government any better than the "evil" American government? And why won't the supposed "evil" American government let you leave? Or is it that you won't leave because that would be a bad business decision on your part. This country allows free enterprise and you profit from the system more than any one else in our group, so don't tell us "it's not financially possible" when you make more money than all of us.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 12:19:34 GMT -5
So you admit fallibility, yet refuse to reconsider your views. How do you reconcile that position? I never said I was perfect. I refuse to reconsider my view because you have called me to test the Lord . Luke 4:12 And Jesus answered and said to him, “It has been said, ‘You shall not test the LORD your God.’”Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 6:16 “You shall not test the LORD your God as you tested Him in Massah.I say again, I will not test Christ. You refuse to reconsider your views as much as myself and Kevin, and don't say "I only seek truth", because you still have failed to give me an answer as to how you determine "truth" and why your "truth' is better that all others.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 12:30:12 GMT -5
This whole thing about your barn light is just silly Stephen. Then it should be very easy to answer. I did.
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 27, 2010 12:33:52 GMT -5
If I was bin laden I would have realized that I'm going to die either way, so I would avoid any more senseless deaths, stop being a coward, and turn myself in. If I really was bin laden though I wouldn't have angered the greatest superpower on earth to begin with. America is not unreasonable, but we don't allow things to go unpunished. I've already presented the facts to you Michael. I'll state them again. During the 1982 Lebanon war the United States directly aided Israel in their invasion and attack on Lebanon, supplying weaponry and part of their 6th fleet. This was not our war. We we're not attacked. And we had no business there. Osama Bin Laden said the United States continued interference in the middle east starting with our attacks on Lebanon in 1982 was his motivation for attacking the towers. If you wish to disprove his statements as the rants of an insane madman then present me with the facts and prove to me that he is insane. Otherwise, you cannot ignore the fact that your own country initiated violence against someone who had never attacked us. And that we invited the 9/11 attacks. That is a proven indisputable fact.
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 27, 2010 12:40:23 GMT -5
So you admit fallibility, yet refuse to reconsider your views. How do you reconcile that position? I never said I was perfect. I refuse to reconsider my view because you have called me to test the Lord . Luke 4:12 And Jesus answered and said to him, “It has been said, ‘You shall not test the LORD your God.’”Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 6:16 “You shall not test the LORD your God as you tested Him in Massah.I say again, I will not test Christ. You refuse to reconsider your views as much as myself and Kevin, and don't say "I only seek truth", because you still have failed to give me an answer as to how you determine "truth" and why your "truth' is better that all others. Truth is truth Michael. Your perception of truth doesn't make it true. It simply makes it your best guess. My father has repeatedly offered to forget all of his preconceived notions in search of truth with you, and you have denied the offer. You stubbornly believe that your perception of truth is the only real truth, therefore, it does not matter what is actually real or not real, it does not matter what is actually true or not true. You have decided your perception will not be changed, and my father has not. So your accusations of his defense of his belief are completely false.
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Feb 27, 2010 12:47:24 GMT -5
Or is it that you won't leave because that would be a bad business decision on your part. This country allows free enterprise and you profit from the system more than any one else in our group, so don't tell us "it's not financially possible" when you make more money than all of us. Is that why he had to borrow money from me to fill up his gas tank this morning?
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 13:12:42 GMT -5
My father has repeatedly offered to forget all of his preconceived notions in search of truth with you, and you have denied the offer. No he has offered to help me forget what I know so I can see things his way.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2010 13:13:35 GMT -5
If I was bin laden I would have realized that I'm going to die either way, so I would avoid any more senseless deaths, stop being a coward, and turn myself in. If I really was bin laden though I wouldn't have angered the greatest superpower on earth to begin with. America is not unreasonable, but we don't allow things to go unpunished. I've already presented the facts to you Michael. I'll state them again. During the 1982 Lebanon war the United States directly aided Israel in their invasion and attack on Lebanon, supplying weaponry and part of their 6th fleet. This was not our war. We we're not attacked. And we had no business there. Osama Bin Laden said the United States continued interference in the middle east starting with our attacks on Lebanon in 1982 was his motivation for attacking the towers. If you wish to disprove his statements as the rants of an insane madman then present me with the facts and prove to me that he is insane. Otherwise, you cannot ignore the fact that your own country initiated violence against someone who had never attacked us. And that we invited the 9/11 attacks. That is a proven indisputable fact. What does this have to do with what I said?
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