All Time Greatest ADFT Player

[Stephen]

Continued from another thread...

I think Graham, Terry, Dory and Ken were (or "are") - at the height of their DP careers - the best players in ADFT history.

Graham and Terry had incredible winning percentages and average scores. I think Terry played in 3 ADFT's, winning two, second in the last one, and setting the all time scoring average record that still stands nearly two decades later. That one is tough to beat. Graham was right there with him, winning two titles in four years and posting incredible scores.

Dory (93-95) and Ken (05-07) completely dominated their respective eras. During their hot streaks, no one else needed to bother showing up.

I don't care what anyone says, there really is a difference between players and some really are better when the chips are down.

This is probably a little like comparing Joe Namath to Peyton Manning, since the game changes from one era to the next. I would be hard pressed to choose between them to name the greatest player in ADFT history, but my vote would surely be for one of those four.

[starwarsminifan]

I've had the privilege of gaming with all 4 of them (something not very many people in Indy Squadron can say). I agree with those 4 and also I would throw you in that mix, considering you've won more than your own fair share of ADFT titles. Wayne has only won one, and I think he needs to win at least 1 more to be in that conversation, but I'd put him and maybe myself in the next plateau. Wayne has definitely shown more consistency than me and seems to own the top 5 of every tournament he plays in. Even though he hasn't won one, I'd put Rick Lacy in that next tier with us.

But my choice for best would probably be Graham. Terry would get the nod if he had more appearances.

[KevinR]

I didn't realize Garrett was logged in and not me, so the above post was actually by me not Garrett.

[KevinR]

I forgot to include Ben in that greatest ADFT player ever conversation. But given the fact that he played in 4 games and averaged 104.0 pts in those games, there have been few more dominant.

[KevinR]

Maybe I shortchanged Wayne in my first post. I looked at the averages again and he has a higher average than even Graham or Dory. He has only won one title, but he's always hovering around near the top 2 or 3 at the end year after year. I can't believe that I also have a higher ADFT average than Graham, Dory, or Stephen. That blows my mind as I don't consider myself "Better" than any of you.

[Stephen]

Ben should definitely be in the conversation because in his four appearances he finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th, which reflects a fantastic finishing average. However, he only won one tourney... 25% of the games he played in... while Terry won 67% of the games he was in and lost his third by only 2 points. That's just incredible. Of course, neither Terry nor Ben had much longevity in the tourney. When you pop off a few good games and leave, your good scores stand forever.

I believe that finishing position is actually more important than scoring average because a high score doesn't guarantee a win. Scores are relative. Dory won with 95 points a few years back. Then both she and Ken scored 119 points and lost! Some games simply don't produce tons of kills, so while scoring averages are helpful, they don't win titles and they don't reflect the totality of the game. But at the end of every game, Ben was always there.

That is why I don't include myself. I have twice as many wins as anyone but I had several terrible games where I finished near the bottom. Terry and Ben never did that... they were always finishing 1st thru 3rd.

When you have 20 entries, you can't possibly hope to match the record of a player who entered 7 times fewer tourneys than you. You can't escape the averages over time. But after two decades I'm still winning 30% of the tourneys. I can't hold a candle to Terry or Graham or Ken or Ben, but I'll take that and be happy.

So this is what's fun about these debates... everyone has their own criteria, and the possible combinations of criteria are endless.

[Stephen]

Nov 13, 2009 18:41:32 GMT -5 KevinR said:

I can't believe that I also have a higher ADFT average than Graham, Dory, or Stephen. That blows my mind as I don't consider myself "Better" than any of you.

You're one title away from being in the top class IMHO. But it needs to come quick because you already have 7 appearances and you need a good winning percentage for consideration. So there... the pressure is on!

We've got quite a history to ADFT now, so I really think to be considered the greatest of all time, a player needs multiple titles. We've had 34 players in the game overall, 23 of them entered more than one tourney, 11 of them managed to win it, and only four of those have done so more than once.

So that's a big standard IMO. I would think that multiple titles would be among the most fundamental standards for "the greatest." Winning percentage would be next. Then average finishing position, then perhaps scoring average and number of tourneys entered.

That makes Terry the hands down winner IMO. The only strike against him is his low number of tourneys entered, but everything else is a slam dunk.