joseki
Captain
Come to the dark side!
Posts: 274
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Post by joseki on Aug 31, 2009 11:34:01 GMT -5
Didn't mean to rain on your parade Kirk. Its just like anything else being great requires work, not just to get to that level but to stay at that level.
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Post by kirkh on Aug 31, 2009 12:40:14 GMT -5
I agree. It requires work and it also requires keeping up with the times and thinking out of the box a little. The people that can currently play need to put themselves in the shoes of those of us who can't and try to do something about it. Just ask themselves the question: "I just bought a copy of DP on eBay and want to play an official game, but where do I start?" The games unique requirement of needing four players for an official game makes it pretty tough. Obviously the first answer would be to find a local gaming group, but assuming (as in my case) that's not possible, what is the next answer?
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Post by AP on Aug 31, 2009 13:13:52 GMT -5
Kirk, I think there is the 'market' there for online play, Kevan has spent countless hours building the module and making it a more user friendly application - VDP just needs an advocate such as yourself to spend the time & energy to promote play on the DP.org site and I am SURE you will slowly but surely build a regular game there. Kevan and I spent many a Thursday as the only 2 players online waiting for a game - but there are the players out there like yourself that are interested in playing, and we many times had newcomers drop in and want to play a game. I would recommned posting on the DP.org VDP forum that you are interested in playing, suggest a weekly time you might want to play, and to start things off pick one date a month ahead of time and schedule an 'open game'. This gives players the chance to plan ahead for a schduled game. Ideas like this will be what it takes to get online gaming back off the ground. As far as the limitations of the DP website, you have to remember that this is not a bankrolled company - it is a group of volunteers that enjoy playing this game enough that they are willing to give their time and talents for the DP community. To make the DP website great will take more volunteers to step up and do so. Mike C. is a strong advocate of online play, the website, etc - but he also believes that the community itself needs to be responsible for its upkeep. I would be happy to play online again, so as soon as I see interest I will be happy to chime in and assist with promotion...there is my .02 on the 'next answer'  |
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albpilot
Ace of Aces
Red Baron Fight XVIII Champ
I'm not frightened of terrorism, so please don't go and create a police state on my account...
Posts: 1,181
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Post by albpilot on Aug 31, 2009 13:25:32 GMT -5
Kirk, I think there is the 'market' there for online play, Kevan has spent countless hours building the module and making it a more user friendly application - VDP just needs an advocate such as yourself to spend the time & energy to promote play on the DP.org site and I am SURE you will slowly but surely build a regular game there. Kevan and I spent many a Thursday as the only 2 players online waiting for a game - but there are the players out there like yourself that are interested in playing, and we many times had newcomers drop in and want to play a game. I would recommned posting on the DP.org VDP forum that you are interested in playing, suggest a weekly time you might want to play, and to start things off pick one date a month ahead of time and schedule an 'open game'. This gives players the chance to plan ahead for a schduled game. Ideas like this will be what it takes to get online gaming back off the ground. As far as the limitations of the DP website, you have to remember that this is not a bankrolled company - it is a group of volunteers that enjoy playing this game enough that they are willing to give their time and talents for the DP community. To make the DP website great will take more volunteers to step up and do so. Mike C. is a strong advocate of online play, the website, etc - but he also believes that the community itself needs to be responsible for its upkeep. I would be happy to play online again, so as soon as I see interest I will be happy to chime in and assist with promotion...there is my .02 on the 'next answer' I really enjoyed the play-by-vassal games and would certainly participate in another. I'd try the online games too, but almost invariably they are scheduled when I'm not available... : ( |
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Post by kirkh on Aug 31, 2009 14:09:25 GMT -5
VDP just needs an advocate such as yourself to spend the time & energy to promote play on the DP.org site and I am SURE you will slowly but surely build a regular game there. Unfortunately that didn't work the last two times I've tried. I tried when George Long initially created the VASSAL module and then again a couple years ago. We had a fairly regular game going on for a short time but after a while it seemed we spent more time "waiting for a 4th" than actually playing. My frustration was that the overall DP community never seemed to want to participate in VDP. They had their face-to-face games and we had VDP. I always thought if even only two or three FTF DP players would show up regularly we could have kept the Thursday games going. Heck, even the VASSAL e-mail games were fun but I got burned out moderating most of them. I wanted to participate as a player more. My dream was that if everyone could moderate a single game then we could all have a bunch of games going on at the same time. It doesn't take much to play in an e-game but it takes some time to moderate them. Plus with e-games you don't all need to be sitting around the computer at the same time. That way there can be players from all over the globe. In a nutshell, I think DP could be a thriving game if all modes of play (FTF, online, e-mail) were universally supported and equally recognized and participated in by the DP community. |
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Post by Stephen on Aug 31, 2009 21:51:32 GMT -5
I don't think its impossible to build a local squadron - even if you live at the south pole - and I don't think its impossible to build VDP.
Scott Jones and I played unofficial 2 on 2 games for over a year before I ever played a single 4 player event. We had a ball. In some ways it was actually more fun than official games.
Then we started a group from scratch in Indy. There was nothing here. Not a single player. We just kept at it until we got four and built it from there.
Then in Connersville IN, a town of barely 12,000 in the middle of nowhere, I did the same thing again. Started with absolutely nothing, not even a population base, and got a small squadron going.
So I just don't buy the bit about "Well, it can't be done here." Yes it can, and I don't care where you live. So can VDP. And BTW, I've never done anything but support VDP and I don't know of anyone else who has either.
I feel for ya, Kirk, and I've been thru the same thing. The society could do a lot of things better than it does, and we all wish we had an 8th edition, the web site could promote the game better and if I had wings I could fly. You're right, getting a group going is really tough. But I don't think all the negativity toward the society and web site is justified.
But you're not in the hopeless, impossible, unimaginable nightmare you describe. If you want a local group you can have one. If you want VDP to succeed it can. Joining the society is not a waste and it will help and you will find others in your situation as well... possibly within driving distance of your home.
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Post by kirkh on Sept 1, 2009 8:19:34 GMT -5
"If you want a local group you can have one. If you want VDP to succeed it can." - Sorry, but that's simply wrong. I can't be responsible for what other people want to play. Sure there are gaming groups here, but none I've been able to get interested in an old game like DP. As you know I've spent years trying to get VDP viable with little to no support from the "old guard" but I can't fix what's not in my control. Note that I didn't start this thread with the "Sad Days Indeed" title. Whoever started it was the one trying to figure out why the game is dying. I just pointed out the obvious reasons. Don't shoot the messenger. Correct the problems and the game won't by dying anymore.
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Post by bergovoy on Sept 1, 2009 18:47:13 GMT -5
One major problem was/is that Vassal didn't work with Vista, is that still a problem?
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Post by kirkh on Sept 2, 2009 10:10:39 GMT -5
What was the problem? I got a new computer a while back that has Vista 64 bit on it and VASSAL seems to work alright - not that I've used it a whole lot. I haven't tried the DP module as yet so maybe any issues are with the module itself.
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Post by kevan on Sept 2, 2009 13:08:50 GMT -5
I probably deserve some of the blame for players' problems with Vassal. When I was updating the module, it went through some growing pains. I think that I still have a short list of things that need to be corrected, but they're mostly graphical. I have a computer running Vista 64 that I keep offline. I'll try to find some time this week to install Vassal and the module on it.
Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if there are issues, but I hope there won't be. The only reason I use Vista is that I need it to support the amount of RAM on my new computer. I can't wait for Windows 7 to be out.
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albpilot
Ace of Aces
Red Baron Fight XVIII Champ
I'm not frightened of terrorism, so please don't go and create a police state on my account...
Posts: 1,181
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Post by albpilot on Sept 2, 2009 14:35:26 GMT -5
Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if there are issues, but I hope there won't be. The only reason I use Vista is that I need it to support the amount of RAM on my new computer. I can't wait for Windows 7 to be out. Why so you'll be required to add even MORE RAM to keep it working? Ugh. |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Sept 4, 2009 4:28:07 GMT -5
As far as Indy Squadron goes (can't speak for all the others so I'll keep quiet on that), I know for a fact that we can see some real growth in the next year if we can get back to having one scheduled date a month and putting them on the calender ahead of time like we used to. Stephen this is not a swipe at you at all, I know you are busy, and I'm willing to help keep the calender updated and work on communicating gamedays with everyone if necessary until you get going again. Please see our Gaming Day thread for 2009, and we have tried so hard to get some games scheduled for months.
As far as Vassal goes, my sons and I have played the Star Wars miniatures game on Vassal and that is quite popular and goes well. But that game is a much easier game to run rules-wise than DP is. I'd be interested in Vassal games if we can ever get it going again, and I have the module downloaded already for it.
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Post by kirkh on Sept 4, 2009 12:51:15 GMT -5
I think the VASSAL games could get going again with improved communication. I've seen enough posts here and at other forums from folks who are willing to play but just don't have opponents. If one VDP mailing list could be created so that anyone even remotely interested in VDP could send/receive e-mails about games, it might help participation a great deal.
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joseki
Captain
Come to the dark side!
Posts: 274
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Post by joseki on Sept 9, 2009 21:18:08 GMT -5
One might decide that the number of Squadron players posting an Ace/Experienced pilot on this years pilot list might just determine how well each group is doing.
(This is a SUBTLE) Hint.
The only Indy Squadron player to send me a list of Pilots has been MR. Skinner...
Even the Wisconsin guys can post more than that.
This has been an intentionally inciteful post brought to you by your local neighborhood idiot..er I mean List compiler ;D
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Post by Stephen on Sept 11, 2009 14:54:31 GMT -5
Of course, that could also be because NO ONE ELSE HAS ANY!!
(Response provocation attempt).
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