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Post by Stephen on Mar 10, 2010 10:05:39 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, Kevin, but I am confident in saying that aside from scanning a few stories and headlines that I've posted here, you've never made a serious time commitment to in-depth reading on LewRockwell.com.
Yet you instantly discount it, compare it to poison, and dismiss anything that comes from this source despite your near-complete ignorance of the publication's material. This is much like an unsaved person who dismisses The Bible without committing a portion of their life to studying it first.
Perhaps the biggest difference between us is not policy or politics, but the simple fact that I deliberately commit serious time and effort to reading source material that totally opposes all my views. I test my faith. I prove my beliefs. I seek truth and understanding. I re-examine my opinions and build a foundation under my world view.
Have you read Anti-War.com? Justin Raimondo? The Koran? Arab news from Sahafa? Alternative news sources? Direct reports from Afghanistan press? The Communist Manifesto? Butler Schafer? Mein Kampf? Medal of Honor recipient General Smedley Butler?
If you have made a serious time commitment to studying LewRockwell.com, please accept my apologies and tell me how many years you've been reading it. I had no idea you were studying there, too.
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 10, 2010 12:11:58 GMT -5
Recommended reading: The US Constitution, with emphasis on Article I Section 8, and Article VII, by James Madison "Common Sense," by Thomas Paine Declaration of Independence, with emphasis on the petitions against the British Crown, by Thomas Jefferson "Safeguarding Liberty: The Constitution and Citizens Militias" by Larry Pratt "None Dare Call it Treason" by John Stormer Get some basics under your belt and we can continue talking. Have a great night!  Don't think I haven't brushed up on my American history. I have read and highly recommend "America the last best hope" by William J. Bennett, and I would also recommend that you read and re-read the "Gettysburg Address" by Abraham Lincoln. Also it is rather insulting to think that I have not throughly studied the "Declaration of Independence" and "The United States Constitution", I know who wrote them and you don't need to spell that out. |
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 10, 2010 12:40:53 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, Kevin, but I am confident in saying that aside from scanning a few stories and headlines that I've posted here, you've never made a serious time commitment to in-depth reading on LewRockwell.com. I was just on the site and read this www.lewrockwell.com/armentano-p/armentano-p45.1.html. The dude and his buddies want to legalize marijuana!  If Mr. Richeson hasn't read every single article on the site I think he has good reasons not too. |
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phoenix
Second Lieutenant
This has all just gotten so bizarre and pointless...
Posts: 80
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Post by phoenix on Mar 10, 2010 18:14:40 GMT -5
Recommended reading: The US Constitution, with emphasis on Article I Section 8, and Article VII, by James Madison "Common Sense," by Thomas Paine Declaration of Independence, with emphasis on the petitions against the British Crown, by Thomas Jefferson "Safeguarding Liberty: The Constitution and Citizens Militias" by Larry Pratt "None Dare Call it Treason" by John Stormer Get some basics under your belt and we can continue talking. Have a great night! Don't think I haven't brushed up on my American history. I have read and highly recommend "America the last best hope" by William J. Bennett, and I would also recommend that you read and re-read the "Gettysburg Address" by Abraham Lincoln. Also it is rather insulting to think that I have not throughly studied the "Declaration of Independence" and "The United States Constitution", I know who wrote them and you don't need to spell that out. You and Kevin get very insulted very quickly when we suggest something to you, such as the reading of common sense, your posts immediately say how "insulting this is" or how "downright wrong" we are. I would highly suggest a bit of diplomacy in your debate tactics, especially on your end Michael. You have no value or use for anyone else's worldview aside from yours and it makes you downright impossible to talk to. It's no wonder people go on the defensive against Christians if this is all the value we assign someone else's beliefs. The honest truth of the matter is that you will compromise your own belief system to justify killing people and we won't. If that makes us wacko's.. well then I am happy to wear the label. |
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Post by Stephen on Mar 11, 2010 12:32:49 GMT -5
Don't think I haven't brushed up on my American history. You claimed that the founders created a nation with an army, a military draft and a national tax system. All three are false. You may well possess a tremendous foundation of historical knowledge and it may be simple coincidence that all three of your claims are in error. If so, please accept my apologies. |
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Post by Stephen on Mar 11, 2010 13:51:59 GMT -5
While Rick laughs in the background let's chart our course here. SUMMARY - Rick posts an article relating today's situation to that of the American Revolution and asks for responses.
- I respond that the situation is different today in that the vast majority of Americans do not hold the views of the founders.
- Kevin responds by saying that I hate the government, indicates that as a supporter of anarchy I must be fool, that I believe Osama Bin Laden is a hero, that my post is disgusting and I should be sorry for it. He then claims that he, personally, would have fought for the Revolution.
- I offer eleven specific, major principles held by the founders which I perceive to be vastly different from Kevin's views.
- Kevin addresses none of the eleven specific principles in question, but broadly states that I am wrong. He then recommends that I avoid poison beverages.
- Michael attempts to invalidate my position by claiming that the founders created a nation with a standing army, a draft and a national tax system.
- I offer historical information on the history of the US duty and import tax, the US militia, and the creation of the draft, which I believe solidly refutes all three claims. I offer additional reading suggestions and await further discussion.
- Michael claims to be insulted by my post and addresses none of the specific historical information offered therein. He then expresses support for marijuana laws. Gentlemen, I recommend that as mature adults, we abstain from attacking each other as disgusting fools, followers of Osama Bin Laden, and drinkers of poison Kool-Aid. I responded respectfully, fairly and honestly with historical information. That does not make me right. But it was a fair response and deserves to be honestly and directly addressed. Michael - your claims that the nation was founded with a standing army, a military draft and a national tax are wrong. This does not mean you must concede the entire argument. But I would ask that you either directly respond with factual historical data, or concede that on these particular points you were misinformed and that you will permit this new information to affect your views. Kevin - I specified eleven areas where I perceived your views to be in direct opposition to those of the founders. Being right or wrong does not win or lose the debate. However, I directly addressed your post and I expect you to directly address my eleven points with accurate historical data to support your position, or conversely, to concede that on this particular issue I have raised a valid point, and permit that new information to affect your views. Intelligent debate really isn't that difficult. But we must learn to stay on topic, respect standard debate rules, and address each facet of the other's points with relevant information. |
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Michael
Captain
Red Baron Fight XX and XXI Champion
Posts: 407
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Post by Michael on Mar 11, 2010 15:25:57 GMT -5
- Michael claims to be insulted by my post and addresses none of the specific historical information offered therein. He then expresses support for marijuana laws. [/blockquote] [/quote] I put the marijuana thing out there to further extenuate that the Lew dude is weird. And I hope by "supporting marijuana laws" you mean I want pot to be ILLEGAL. |
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albpilot
Ace of Aces
Red Baron Fight XVIII Champ
I'm not frightened of terrorism, so please don't go and create a police state on my account...
Posts: 1,181
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Post by albpilot on Mar 11, 2010 20:54:20 GMT -5
Gentlemen, I recommend that as mature adults, we abstain from attacking each other as disgusting fools, followers of Osama Bin Laden, and drinkers of poison Kool-Aid. Yeah, I and object to being called a Losertarian somewhere in one of these threads!!!!!!  |
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Post by Stephen on Mar 12, 2010 10:57:49 GMT -5
- Michael claims to be insulted by my post and addresses none of the specific historical information offered therein. He then expresses support for marijuana laws. [/blockquote] [/quote] I put the marijuana thing out there to further extenuate that the Lew dude is weird. And I hope by "supporting marijuana laws" you mean I want pot to be ILLEGAL.[/quote] Neither of which is relevant to the point. It was you who attempted to invalidate my position by claiming that the nation was founded with a standing army, a military draft and a national tax. I responded with factual historical information demonstrating that all three claims are wrong. I ask you to stay on topic - the topic you yourself introduced. I ask you to stand up and face the honest responses to your own questions in a courageous and straightforward manner. I ask that you either directly respond with factual historical data, or concede that on these particular points you were misinformed, that my points are not invalidated by the specific claims you made, and that you will permit this new information to affect your views. |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 12, 2010 16:14:35 GMT -5
Gentlemen, I recommend that as mature adults, we abstain from attacking each other as disgusting fools, followers of Osama Bin Laden, and drinkers of poison Kool-Aid. Yeah, I and object to being called a Losertarian somewhere in one of these threads!!!!!! And I object to being told I would have fought for the British which is an insult no matter how you might try to defend it or veil it. This is all silly and pointless. I didn't call you a Losertarian. I happen to greatly disagree with the Libertarian party on a number of issues, and I don't think they have any answers for the problems that face our country. |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 12, 2010 16:15:53 GMT -5
Also note that I disagree greatly with the RE-publicans and the Dumbocrats equally as much as the Losertarians. Those are meant to be humorous tags for those political parties, but seriously I think they are all mess.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 12, 2010 16:21:19 GMT -5
Gentlemen, I recommend that as mature adults, we abstain from attacking each other as disgusting fools, followers of Osama Bin Laden, and drinkers of poison Kool-Aid. How about saying that friends would have fought for the British or wouldn't have fought for the Amercians during the Revolutionary War? That was a huge insult and a lie. It doesn't matter how you try to veil it or defend it. Stop playing innocent victim bro. You and your son both have made statements indicating Osama Bin Laden is a hero and a patriot defending his country against foreign invaders. And you have based that solely on his own quotes. We called you on it. You backpedaled. I didn't say you were a follower of Osama Bin Laden. But you have made very clear statements that can be copied and pasted quite easily. Instead of pointless going around in circles why not just stick to the main issues? |
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 12, 2010 16:24:15 GMT -5
Stephen, there were just as many things in previous posts and discussions that I've tried to get you to answer and you barely even read them. You are still defending your position and you might claim to have an open mind, but anything that refutes your "all government is evil" positions is mocked and condescended. I really am at a point where I think the whole discussion has become counter productive.
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KevinR
Group Commander
2003, 2009 Indy Squadron Champion
Posts: 753
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Post by KevinR on Mar 12, 2010 16:33:02 GMT -5
Rick, for your sake I will refrain from referring to any of the political parties with those terms. I apologize.
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Post by Stephen on Mar 12, 2010 17:49:16 GMT -5
I specified eleven areas where I perceived your views to be in direct opposition to those of the founders.
Please directly address my eleven points with accurate historical data to support your position, or conversely, concede that on this particular issue I have raised a valid point, and permit that new information to affect your views.
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