Heroes for our times

[Stephen]

The accuracy of this article is indisputable, but it fails when it compares the timing to that of the American War for Independence.

Today's statists are perpetually trying to fix the system. They propose legislation to fix the system's corruption, the system's health care, and the system's judicial system. They are forever trying to put a halo on Satan, never realizing that it is not the system's elements or shortcomings that are in error... it is the system itself.

They will eternally debate how, why and where to fix the system. But the system itself shall not be questioned. It is their idol. It is their sacred god and golden calf.

The extremist, anti-government terrorist revolutionaries of 1775 (sorry, but that's what they would be called today) did not merely condemn the system's corruption, the system's oppression or the system's theft rate. They fought the system itself. They recognized that the system is the enemy. They knew that you don't tame a dragon, you slay it.

The vast majority of today's statists - even the discontented ones - want to fix the existing system, not abolish it. That makes them identical to the Tories of 1775 who defended the British system, but merely wanted to "fix" it. They would not have fought on the side of American patriots in the Revolutionary War, and they won't today either. If they fought at all, it would have been for the British.

Unfortunately, the VAST majority of Americans fall into this category. They imagine themselves "patriots," when in reality they would have supported the British Tories.

There is a very small handful of people who are true revolutionaries. They are treasonous, anti-government, radicals and terrorists. They are the lunatic fringe.

As the terrorist Patrick Henry said, "If this be treason, make the most of it!"

As radical extremist Benjamin Franklin said, if this country doesn't offer liberty, dump it and find freedom elsewhere.

As traitor Thomas Jefferson said, every 20 years blood needs to be spilled in order to slay the monster of government.

So the article is both right and wrong. America is ready for a revolution. Most of its people are not.

[KevinR]

What an offensive post Stephen. I am shocked at the levels to which you've gone in your hatred of government. Anarchy is a fool's errand, and I'm sad to see you taking it.

[KevinR]

I would have fought boldly and gladly at the sides of the founding fathers of our country. And I don't think that all government is wicked. Your assumptions are mind boggling to me.

[KevinR]

I guess this mindset explains why you consider Osama Bin Laden to be a hero and a patriot defending his home land, and want to revere him as a hero like the American Revolutionary heroes. This is disgusting.

[KevinR]

Unfortunately, the VAST majority of Americans fall into this category. They imagine themselves "patriots," when in reality they would have supported the British Tories.
There is a very small handful of people who are true revolutionaries. They are treasonous, anti-government, radicals and terrorists. They are the lunatic fringe.

This is broken, and you should be sorry for saying such horrible things about so many Americans who love their country and would die for it, and would gladly fight the British all over again.

[KevinR]

You're saying in a nutshell that the only TRUE patriots are the ones who embrace our "all government is wicked" views. You have failed to demonstrate that the founding fathers were anarchists. Thomas Jefferson was a President. That's a government office.

[Stephen]

Mar 8, 2010 18:41:56 GMT -5 KevinR said:

I would have fought boldly and gladly at the sides of the founding fathers of our country.

If you defend the government's ability to steal from it's own citizens today, you certainly would not have opposed the paltry 3% tax paid by American colonists.

If you believe government should regulate drugs and alcohol today, you certainly would not have opposed the modest taxation and restrictions on rum and wine imposed by the Molasses Act and the Sugar Act of 1764.

If you support foreign wars against nations that have not attacked us today, you would not have opposed paying for King George's wars in Spain and France.

If you support a 2 million-man standing army today, you certainly would not oppose a British standing army then.

If you support police actions today, you would not rebel against British officers Hugh White and John Goldfinch when they opened fire on the criminals on King Street and started the Boston Massacre on March 5, 1770.

If you support federal controls to outlaw abortion over state legislatures, you could not have opposed the Townshend Acts of 1767 that transferred control of law from the colonies to the British central government.

If you do not support the abolition of today's regulations, papers and forms for immigration, banking and real estate, you certainly could not have opposed the Stamp Act of 1765 which mandated new forms for land purchases and wills.

If you do not oppose licensing drivers and forcing airline passengers to produce their state papers today, you certainly would not have any problem with the Coersive Act of 1775 which mandated permission for travel by American colonists in Boston (among other things).

If you support 501c3 IRS certification for churches today, you would certainly have accepted government designations and mandates in the Church of England in 1776.

If you support singing praises to the state and displaying national flags in churches today, you certainly would not have opposed doing the same for the British monarchy in your church in 1770.

And if government is established by God, your rebellion against the British crown would be sinful, unrighteous and blasphemous. You would have called Patrick Henry an extremist, anti-government, rebellious traitor.

And you would have been right!

Sorry, Kevin. You would have been a Tory.

[Stephen]

Way to go, Rick! You are no doubt laughing hysterically by now.

All you have to do is push the little snowball down a hill. The rest happens by itself.

Jump in! Join the Special Olympics!

[KevinR]

Your assumptions are still wrong.

It is possible to:

A. Believe the British did evil things to the American colonists and completely and totally support the Revolutionary War.

B. Believe our own government does evil things without believing ALL government is evil.

[KevinR]

Stop drinking Lew Rockwell's Kool Aid.

[Michael]

So let me get this straight Stephan. You believe that the founding fathers were anarchists and so they came over here to get away from the "evil" government?
Then why, I ask, did they create their own government complete with taxes, a payed military with a draft, tax payed government offices, etcetera?

[Stephen]

Mar 9, 2010 11:19:42 GMT -5 KevinR said:

Your assumptions are still wrong.

It is possible to:

A. Believe the British did evil things to the American colonists and completely and totally support the Revolutionary War.

B. Believe our own government does evil things without believing ALL government is evil.

Certainly it is. I agree totally.

I am merely observing the fact that many of your most dearly held political and Biblical principles are in diametric opposition to those of the founders yet strikingly similar to the leading Tories of colonial America, and from that, I draw the only rational conclusion.

[Stephen]

Mar 9, 2010 11:22:31 GMT -5 KevinR said:

Stop drinking Lew Rockwell's Kool Aid.

A given statement is either true or it is false. The source of the statement does not dictate its validity.

Seek truth.

[Michael]

Mar 9, 2010 23:52:32 GMT -5 Stephen said:

Mar 9, 2010 11:19:42 GMT -5 KevinR said:

Your assumptions are still wrong.

It is possible to:

A. Believe the British did evil things to the American colonists and completely and totally support the Revolutionary War.

B. Believe our own government does evil things without believing ALL government is evil.

Certainly it is. I agree totally.

I am merely observing the fact that many of your most dearly held political and Biblical principles are in diametric opposition to those of the founders yet strikingly similar to the leading Tories of colonial America, and from that, I draw the only rational conclusion.

And you have proof of this?

[Stephen]

Mar 9, 2010 13:40:23 GMT -5 Michael said:

Then why, I ask, did they create their own government complete with taxes

I see some basic history is in order here.

The United States government was not created with the power to steal from the American people. In fact, the federal government was explicitly forbidden to steal from Americans by both the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

There was no income tax. There was no FICA tax. No Social Security tax, no capital gains tax, no corporate tax, no municipal, district or township tax, no Medicare or unemployment tax, no progressive tax bracketing, no sales tax or property tax, no estate or gift tax, no school tax or workman's comp tax.

The federal government sustained itself almost entirely by customs taxes on imports and duties, not a penny of which came from the US citizenry.

All stealing was done on a term basis at the state level, where politicians were required to determine the specific amount to be stolen, the period in which the stealing would take place, and the specific time at which the theft would end.

Of course that changed over time, however, the founders did not "create their own government complete with taxes," and the very suggestion of it would have caused you to be banned from their company and suspected as a Tory.

a payed military

Okay, there's no excuse on this one. You should know this. Especially if you intend to work in government.

The founders did not create a standing army, paid or unpaid. Standing armies were outlawed under Article I, Section 8 of the US constitution in 1787. A federal army was THE greatest single fear of the founding fathers.

By federal law, armies can only be raised in times of war, and then only for two year periods. After two years, the army must be disbanded. Another army can only be raised when a separate means of funding is passed by Congress. That is still the law today.

Each state and municipality had its own officers, to be paid only if and when the local citizenry so desired, with the lower officers and enlisted personnel made up entirely of volunteers.

with a draft

There was no military slavery in the United States for nearly 100 years after the nation's establishment.

The first military slaves were not conscripted into service until 1862, and even then, riots broke out throughout the east in protest. And even after the passage of the new slavery laws, fewer than 2% of the total Union force were conscripts.

The founders of this nation vehemently opposed a draft (with the exception of James Madison, who unsuccessfully tried to establish military slavery in 1812, and Alexander Hamilton, and a handful of Federalists).

The founders did not create a nation with a "draft." Your belief was supported by the British Tories, who used both military slaves as well as mercenaries, but it was not held by the founders of this country.

Michael, you've got to study up on some of this.

Recommended reading:

The US Constitution, with emphasis on Article I Section 8, and Article VII, by James Madison

"Common Sense," by Thomas Paine

Declaration of Independence, with emphasis on the petitions against the British Crown, by Thomas Jefferson

"Safeguarding Liberty: The Constitution and Citizens Militias" by Larry Pratt

"None Dare Call it Treason" by John Stormer

Get some basics under your belt and we can continue talking. Have a great night!