Gun Conversions from reality to Dawn Patrol

[joseki]

Hey guys,

Ron sent me an article on the HMS Furious. The armement includes eleven 5.5 inch guns, two 3 inch guns , four 3 pdr guns.

The four 3 pounders are Anti Aircraft does that make the rest of the guns Mg's or are they Ack Ack as well?

Thanks for the help.

[kazorm]

The rest of the guns are nothing. They were not capable of getting enough elevation, or able to visually track aircraft. This also includes the remaining 18" gun on the stern. I'm sure Furious is in the book I sold you guys at the spring minicon. Check it out there. If the gun is not listed as AA, it was not capable of being used against aircraft.

[Stephen]

Jim, I put considerable study into this a few years ago and came up with a pretty accurate chart to roll up ship AA defenses. Can send if you want it.

[joseki]

admin said:

Jim, I put considerable study into this a few years ago and came up with a pretty accurate chart to roll up ship AA defenses. Can send if you want it.

Aye please send it. Thanks Stephen

[kazorm]

Jim,
Stephen only thinks his chart is fairly accurate. If the gun did not have AA listed after it in Jane's, it was not supplied with antiaircraft ammunition, but with armorpiercing for use against ships. You could not use this against an aircraft, as it would take a direct contact hit to bring it down, and even then the shell probably would not explode unless, maybe it hit the engine.

Ken

[Stephen]

My chart relies on warship orders originally placed with contractors by the major national powers for naval vessels constructed between 1908 and 1917, in addition to individual retro-fitting orders for each ship as the necessity of AA defenses became more obvious from 1916 onward. Many different sources were used for the chart and at least three of them were mentioned in the chart itself.

Jane's was used as a secondary reference only and was one of the weakest sources available. I had hoped to use it as a primary source but it simply didn't have sufficient data. Ken, you should forget about using Jane's for serious research related to AA. But I would be interested in seeing any of the original equipment contracts that you've found for individual ships... what do you have and where did you find it?

Jim, my chart also includes a ship-by-ship breakdown of about 60 of the most significant individual naval vessels in use by the US, GB, Russia, Italy, Germany and Austro Hungaria.

No chart made 100 years after the fact will be perfect and I'm sure this one is not either. But it does indeed give you a good, reliable idea of what an average ship in WWI would have as defensive AA armament for most of the warring powers.

[albpilot]

kazorm said:

Jim,
Stephen only thinks his chart is fairly accurate. If the gun did not have AA listed after it in Jane's, it was not supplied with antiaircraft ammunition, but with armorpiercing for use against ships. You could not use this against an aircraft, as it would take a direct contact hit to bring it down, and even then the shell probably would not explode unless, maybe it hit the engine.

Ken

In the game or two that we used it, I found the chart to be accepable, not too much AA but enough to not make it a cakewalk.

[Stephen]

The AA defenses of the era - when aviation was just finding its way - varied wildly. Some ships were refitted with fairly stout AA guns while others had none at all.

It was necessary to push the chart toward the mean so that all vessels in the game would have some minimal amount of protection and prevent the aforementioned cakewalk. Complete historical accuracy would have left some ships totally defenseless and really hurt the enjoyment of the scenarios.