albpilot
Ace of Aces
Red Baron Fight XVIII Champ
I'm not frightened of terrorism, so please don't go and create a police state on my account...
Posts: 1,181
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Post by albpilot on Nov 3, 2006 8:54:42 GMT -5
I have played in several Society events and also several IndySqdn events. The scoring system used is different. We in IndySqdn attempt to score only items that reflect a pilot's skill and bravery (if I interpret correctly). Society scoring seems to penalize a pilot for bravery (if he stays and fights then dies) or for cowardice (loses points if he runs away). I'd like to see some discussion-if anyone is of a mind to, of course-around scoring in events and what works/what doesn't. To start off with, I think that if you remove the 'shot down, -35 pts' penalty from Society scoring you make a step toward rewarding a pilot for bravery. Anyone disagree?
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Post by Stephen on Nov 3, 2006 9:28:28 GMT -5
To extrapolate... yes, Indy's idea was to stop the "bravery penalties" inherent in the society scoring system. Risking your life to save a wingman can cost you -35 points. Even if you don't die, you are penalized for the attempt by losing points for every hit you take. If you have 9 hf's in each wing and you have the courage to fly back into the fray, you lose points for your bravery. Virtually every aspect of society scoring penalizes players for boldness and courage, and also for other things that in reality they have little control over (such as wingmen down).
After some questionable outcomes to our major tournaments, Indy decided that enough was enough in the summer of 1994 and changed the scoring system to reward bravery, not penalize it. We tried it for a year and everyone felt that it better reflected who should win the game.
Another point... under society scoring, it is possible to get a hot start to a game and then hide in a corner. Other competitors can actually LOSE points trying to catch up to you as they asborb battle damage. Your lead increases by default because you take little or no damage while you hide. So not only is bravery punished, but cowardice is rewarded. Under Indy's system, your competitors do not take negative points while you hide... they score only positive points and your lead diminishes unless you participate.
So while I can't further the debate by offering an opposing view, that is a more complete explanation of Indy's system and why it was adopted. After 13 years no one seems to want to switch back and, like the Observer's Defense Rule, everyone who tries it for any length of time seems to like it.
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albpilot
Ace of Aces
Red Baron Fight XVIII Champ
I'm not frightened of terrorism, so please don't go and create a police state on my account...
Posts: 1,181
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Post by albpilot on Nov 3, 2006 10:54:50 GMT -5
Ok, thanks for the more detailed explanation of where we got ours. Some of what you said I agree with. However, some things I thing you SHOULD get penalized for even if they are out of your control. For example, the Society has the 'wingman down, -2' penalty. I completely agree with this one. If you are stupid enough to leave a wingman hanging with 3 opponents just to chase down a smoking plane for a kill, you SHOULD lose points. Likewise, if that same wingman realizes he should run when he could and gets away, he should score no penalty nor would you be hit with the wingman down penalty.
I'd be really interested in hearing how the society decide their scoring rules should be used. If anyone can explain things to me (such as the inherent contradiction of 'run->penalized AND stay->penalized), I'm all ears.
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Post by Stephen on Nov 3, 2006 11:56:34 GMT -5
If you are stupid enough to leave a wingman hanging with 3 opponents just to chase down a smoking plane for a kill, you SHOULD lose points. Possibly, but the fact that a wingman goes down does not necessarily mean that one of his wingmen did something stupid. And an even greater factor in Indy's decision to alter the scoring was the fact that tournaments are individual contests and the goal is to produce a deserving winner. Penalizing a player for a possibly unrelated event that might well have been prevented by better flying on the part of your wingman corrupts that process. We eventually arrived at the conclusion that negative points were undesirable and in many cases actually punished the wrong person. The only way to objectively produce a winner was to stay with positive points which reward deliberate actions by the player. Negative points are subjective second-guesses that frequently backfire.
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albpilot
Ace of Aces
Red Baron Fight XVIII Champ
I'm not frightened of terrorism, so please don't go and create a police state on my account...
Posts: 1,181
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Post by albpilot on Nov 3, 2006 15:13:09 GMT -5
So, George... Al... help me out here. Can you define why some of the categories for Society tournaments came to be and the rational behind them?
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albpilot
Ace of Aces
Red Baron Fight XVIII Champ
I'm not frightened of terrorism, so please don't go and create a police state on my account...
Posts: 1,181
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Post by albpilot on Nov 6, 2006 17:31:40 GMT -5
No one is willing to chip in, eh?
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alien01
Lieutenant
"Talk is cheap. Let's go play." Johnny Unitas
Posts: 123
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Post by alien01 on Sept 26, 2007 16:52:11 GMT -5
When I joined the Society we were on Aerodrome #50, approximately. Many of the issues before that were largely devoted to play-by-mail game reports. The scoring system was developed for those PBM games prior to my involvement.
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